would have had some insight on correct approach target . we didnt play the tips because we had a mid teen handicapper with us so we played 1 up. Not super long. greens were fantastic. in september the rough wasnt as penalizing as it is in later winter. fun course. but i will never play it again. way too many gems in the valley to 'waste' it on TPC Stadium (unless you can play right before this tourney to have the grandstands and tournament course conditions.