i.e that Dastrup has excellent size, skill, and I.Q; and adequate athleticism to lead a lot of experts to believe his potential is your category 1 or 2. (i'm going to assume typos and that i know what you meant).

BTW, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

On the one hand, it is apparent that his motor and fight (it's really valuing the game), has not been adequate to overcome his poor physical condition nor to hustle on every possession. He and BYU have already paid a stiff price for him not caring enough to stay in better condition during and after his mission. But he has made progress in recent months.

On the other hand, the 3 qualities upon which we agree (he has gobs of size and smarts, and adequate athleticism) are virtually unchangeable, while i believe what one values can change.

Here we may have a difference. i admit to the minority view that there is no such thing as a lazy person. Everyone is goal oriented and are keenly interested in using their creativity in ways that other people appreciate.

Payton has demonstrated a high motor/passion in other areas. He has a zest for life. But he hasn't shown it on the court. It's fair to question whether he thinks basketball is all that important.

Lot's of people don't value sports. "What's the point, they will say."

Two of my children were D-1 athletes who didn't really love it, but they did value the contribution they made to their teammates, and how happy they made their community and family. They were OK performers. Had they loved it, they likely would have done better. Many years later now, they are doing very well.

So Payton has to find a way to change his heart about what is important to him or do something else. If he chooses something else, bless him. It's all about what he wants. His ceiling may be limited more by what he values than by his mental and physical gifts.

I agree he has to fight and be a reliably high motor guy on the floor. I take it your view is that it is not plausible to change in that regard. My view is it is plausible and i have seen it in many fields, but i won't be ready to bet on him again until i see a few more games of consistent fight.