still not disagreeing with you. I am saying I don't think Utah is ever going to be good enough to get in. I think the Pac 12 will usually have 2 elite teams and then after that they are just average. I think Utah is going to always be one of those good teams but hardly if ever one of the elite teams. So what I am basically saying is it is still going to be really difficult for BYU or Utah to get in regardless!