Fresh off a bye week, BYU will look to rebound from its setback to Toledo when it squares off against South Florida on Saturday. The Cougars will take the field with a new starting quarterback in Jaren Hall and a renewed commitment to stopping the run, something that hasn’t come easy for them this season. Cougar Insiders Jay Drew, Brandon Gurney and Jeff Call break down the game against the Bulls and talk WCC basketball — both men’s team and women’s — on this week’s episode.
Brandon Gurney: Coming up on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast, we talk about Jaren Hall, what fans can expect from him? How big of a loss is Zach Wilson for BYU? We’ll talk about BYU’s inability to stop the run, basketball and a lot of other things here on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.
Welcome to another edition of Cougar Insiders podcast. I’m not Dick Harmon, I’m Brandon Gurney. I’m somehow employed by the Deseret News and with me, as always, we have Jeff Call, an esteemed journalist with years of experience, and Jay Drew, kind of the newbie, always wanting to give hot takes and he’s employed as well by the Deseret News. So how you guys doing?
Jeff Call: Doing great, Brandon.
Jay Drew: Fun to have a bye week and kind of get reenergized and ready to go for the second half of the season.
BG: Yeah, we’re rejuvenated. We needed that week off. Wow. Just to recalibrate, understand what happened at Toledo, and kind of look forward to the rest of the season. The Cougar Insiders podcast is brought to you by Mr. Mac. Now’s the time to get an unbeatable deal on men’s long-wearing, fashion forward suits on sale at all Mr. Mac stores.
Jay, one thing that kind of came into view during Toledo was BYU’s run defense. Not good. BYU’s not securing a lot of three-and-outs and you look at a porous run defense, that’s kind of the culprit right there. Not good on short yardage, not really good at anything. Is it mostly scheme, personnel? You look at BYU pass defenses, even back in the day with Ken Schmidt. BYU always stopped the run on defense. So this is kind of the bizarro BYU defense. It’s not stopping the run. But also not allowing long, deep passes. And it’s kind of been the opposite of that in history. So what are the reasons for that? Jay, if you could break that down?
JD: That’s a good question. I would say it started in the Utah game, Zack Moss, everybody kind of attributed it to him breaking tackles and all that. And then, you know, the next week, Tennessee didn’t have nearly the caliber of running back as Zack Moss but they still put up a lot of yards and then it kind of got masked because BYU won that game. And then you know, the next week, USC, same thing. USC ran for fewer than 200 yards on the ground, so I think that was acceptable. And then obviously Washington and the latest Toledo to go over the 200-yard mark. So it’s just been a year-long problem. I think one of the biggest problems is the inability to contain the quarterback. The quarterback has killed BYU with scrambles, especially on third down. Toledo’s quarterback I can’t pronounce his name, he did it time and again to them. So I would say that’s the biggest culprit, is they’re just getting dinged on third down by these failures to contain the quarterback.
BG: I think a lot of what we’re seeing is you’re seeing a defensive system where they’re making safeties into linebackers, linebackers into defensive lineman. Which is all fine and good and really good for the pass defense by and large, but I think you’re having a lot of inexperience at that linebacker position that’s really not trained to stop the run; fill those gaps. I remember talking to (Ilaisa) Tuiaki at media day and you’d think inside backer was a big concern but the impression I got was “Yeah, we can just fit guys in and drop them” and all that. Which is fine and good until teams figure out, yeah, maybe we can gash these guys. Are you seeing that, Jeff? Do you think it’s a result of just not having that Cameron Jensen, that Uani Unga type that can just really be stout against the run?
JC: Yeah, I do. I think if you look at the the linebacker corps, I mean, there’s a lot of young guys out there playing. We got Tyler Allgeier and you’ve got a guy like Kavika Fonua who’s played well this year, but as far as playing linebacker, he’s relatively inexperienced. And on top of that, you lose a guy like Zayne Anderson for the season, which is a big blow for this defense. I look at it as a lot of guys just trying to figure things out, trying to learn on the job, and that’s a lot to ask a group of guys to do in the middle of a season.
BG: Yeah there’s some good young talent, but again it’s really young and inexperienced talent. You have four inside backers it’s their first year playing. A lot of them the first time playing at inside backer. So it’s a lot to digest and we’re seeing some some holes there, and maybe the bye week is going to really help with that. But I think that’s kind of an underrated aspect is just filling a gap, shedding a block. It’s kind of taken for granted with most linebackers. But when you have a kid that’s learning how to play linebacker, I think that’s a hurdle they need to overcome.
But obviously the big news today is Jaren Hall. It’s been the news since the end of the Toledo game, who this guy is. And I think a lot of fans, just seeing how BYU’s used him, you think he’s a gadget player. He’s kind of that gadget guy that goes in and isn’t a classic quarterback. But having seen him play in high school, he very much as a guy that’s focused on dropping back and being a more traditional quarterback than maybe he’s been utilized so far. Are you seeing that as well, Jeff?
JC: Yeah, I didn’t see him much in high school. But I did see a ton of him, obviously, during the spring. And I have to say, I was really impressed with what I saw from him. We all know he’s a great athlete, two-sport guy. Very good, very fast, quick. He’s got all those intangibles. And I think, you know, seeing him in for example, the spring game. And granted, it’s a spring game, you don’t read too much into it. But I was just really impressed with his decision-making, his ability to know when to take off downfield and things like that. And he’s got a very good arm. So you know, I fully expect Jaren Hall to do well moving forward. I think he’s going to be the kind of guy that can rally the guys around him and make the guys around him better. I think that’s what you want in a quarterback.
BG: What struck me about the media session we just had with Jaren, just like a half hour ago, is he was very succinct and not really going to elaborate much on his answers. But I thought his most interesting answer was when someone asked him about just playing that one series at quarterback and just how that helped. And it kind of struck me — he kind of thought about it and was like, “Yeah, I needed that.” Did you get that same impression, Jay Drew?
JD: As the one who asked that question, yes, I thought that was huge. He said, “I’ve thought about that a lot.” And you could tell, I think the whole team gained confidence in him. I think the team goes into this game — I think they probably had confidence before, but he literally backed up the talk with that pretty good series, except for that obviously they ran out of time and had to throw deep in the end there. But yeah, I think that was huge. And I think it was huge for the whole team. And I also think one factor that Jaren has going for him this week is that South Florida doesn’t have film on him. They only have whatever, seven passes. And they can’t go back to his high school days, because that was three years ago. So it’s going to be hard for them to kind of do that. So I think Jaren is going to flourish his first game. I think the second game, where they play Boise State, where there’s a whole game of film on him is going to be more difficult. BYU is going to have to kind of come up with some new wrinkles for him because they’re not going to be able to catch Boise State off guard. And I think that’s a factor in Jaren’s favor this week.
BG: Yeah, the really good thing is that they had this week off to kind of acclimate him, and then the opponent’s South Florida. Not good. It’s not a good opponent. But you look at South Florida, and I was on Twitter and I was thinking, no they’re not going to lose to South Florida, they’re garbage. They’re not good and all that. And then well, what about East Carolina? I think, oh, yeah. That’s a good point. East Carolina — that’s a conclusion a lot of people have drawn. Jay, can you just speak on that? What do you know about South Florida and what do you expect BYU to get done in this game?
JD: Well, I think South Florida winning at UConn convincingly, 48-22, on Saturday was huge for that program. Momentum is huge in college football. Confidence is a big factor in college football and South Florida, those guys probably think they can beat BYU now. If they had lost to UConn, I would say they would be a demoralized football team. But wins can really inject a lot of energy and a lot of enthusiasm into a program. So I think that really will have a factor Saturday and I expect a dogfight. I don’t think BYU’s going to go in there and roll over them. BYU is 0-7 in the state of Florida. They’re not very good generally in Eastern Time Zone games, particularly Eastern Time Zone games played in the day. So I think there are a lot of factors that point towards South Florida being a very good opponent this week.
BG: Jeff, you’ve traveled a lot, seen a lot of BYU games on the road. How do you see this game shaping up, what do you know about South Florida that can cause BYU some problems?
JC: Yeah, like Jay, I mean, we’ve made a lot trips to that Eastern Time Zone with this team and seen BYU just lose a lot of games, for a variety of reasons. You know, the record in Florida, you have to look back. And I mean, some of those teams BYU played were very good teams — Miami, Florida State, things like that. So those makes sense. But I just think that at this point of the season — this is a huge game for BYU. No one looked at this game and circled it on the calendar before the season. But where BYU sits right now, this is about as close to a must-win as BYU can have this year. Because if they don’t win this game, you’ve got Boise State and Utah State back to back. And then you really start to wonder is this team going to get bowl eligible? And this is a game that BYU should win. They’re a better team. But when you factor in the travel and you know, playing on the East Coast and things like that, never having won in the state of Florida before. I mean, that’s a lot of stuff piling up that kind of makes you wonder what’s going to happen. But yeah, again, look at this game as a huge game for BYU. They’ve got to win this.
BG: My thing with South Florida is I don’t think BYU’s really focused on what its strength should be so far this year. And I think with a team like South Florida, you just line up, we’re bigger than you are. We’re older than you are. We’re going to out-physical you. We’re going to line it up and just try and stop it. Quit being cute on offense, a lot of the gadget plays they work, but I think there’s too many deep passes. I think they’re not relying on what should be the strength. (Emmanuel) Esukpa should be running at 20 times. Lopini (Katoa) 15 times. Line it up, accentuate your strengths that you should have and just beat these guys convincingly is what I think BYU needs to get done in this game. What kind of game do you see, Jay? What’s your prediction?
JD: Yeah, I would have picked BYU until last week until South Florida showed pretty well. I know UConn’s not a very good team, but I still think BYU pulls this one out. I think if you need a score, I think it’s going to be a high-scoring game. I think BYU’s defense is not good right now, and they’ve lost, like Jeff said, all those guys to injury, and they’re young at linebacker, so I’m going to say BYU 35, South Florida 31.
BG: What about you, Jeff?
JC: Yeah, I see a similar type of scenario. I think 31-27. I think BYU will pull it out. I think these guys will feel a sense of urgency, how important this game is. They may not admit it to us, but I think they really feel that this is a game they’ve got to win. I think they’ll do it. I think the special teams will be better. I think Jake Oldroyd will be back to his old self. I think he was under the weather a couple weeks ago against Toledo. And so I think BYU pulls this thing out.
BG: I’m going to make a note to myself. When I’m running the thing and asking you guys questions, I need to give my prediction first so it looks like you guys are copying me instead of the other way around. But yeah, I mean, just like Jay and Jeff think, it’s going to be high-scoring. South Florida gives up 37 points per game. BYU’s gotta score 37 points, right? You have to score at least over 30 points. This offense needs to get it done. It needs to be that machine and I think the offense is able to put up points, but like Jay said, I don’t have confidence in BYU’s defense at this point of the year. I think the BYU’s gonna win this one 42-35. How about that?
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Jeff, you just got back from Las Vegas, there for the West Coast Conference basketball media day. I went to the availability for the women. I could probably chime in a little bit on that. But what were your impressions from there and just this BYU basketball team?
JC: Well, my impression is, if you know anything about Mark Pope, that he’s ever the optimist. He always looks at the bright side, no matter what’s happening. And there’s been so many things that have happened recently, as we know, with this basketball program. With injuries, with Yoeli Child’s suspension. The most latest, of course, is Gavin Baxter and his shoulder, most likely out for the year. And Mark Pope in his first year is kind of trying to circle the wagons and rally the troops, all those cliches, and put a good spin on it that, you know, they can learn from this experience. That these guys will make the most of what they do have. And they will rely on each other. And I think as I kind of look at it, I mean, again, not having Yoeli for those first nine games, the season really comes down to how well can they play in March? I mean, their chance to get into the NCAA tournament will probably come down to can they do something they’ve never done before and win the West Coast Conference tournament? And I think everything’s got to point to that. They’ve got to build and work together. They’re gonna have to play a different style of basketball because they’re going to be so small without Gavin and Yoeli for those first few games. But yeah, it’s gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
BG: Jay, just how big of an injury is this to BYU basketball? It’s not just like, oh, yeah, now they have that guy. It’s like, oh, what are they going to do in that front court? You have to be creative. How big of a thing is this?
JD: Well, it’s huge because we talked about before, especially until Yoeli comes back, how weak they are and thin they are inside with Kolby Lee now, and to lose another big guy is just really, really damaging. I don’t think you can overstate it. I think it’s huge. And it’s going to be difficult. And if I was Mark Pope, I might jump onto the football team and see if any of these big guys like Blake Freeland and there’s other big guys, maybe see if you can find a diamond in the rough like the Kaufusi brothers were because they look really thin inside for sure.
BG: Yeah, it’s, man, what an unfortunate circumstance. And it just seems like injuries and BYU athletics just go hand in hand these days. I just got back from the women’s team. I thought this women’s team was poised to make at least the Sweet 16 this year with Shaylee Gonzales who was just an amazing player, and her getting injured, the ACL, I mean, wow, what a step back. I still think BYU women’s basketball is going to be a good product, but not what it probably should have been heading into this year. So anyway, I guess that’s my final thought. You guys got anything else? Any words of wisdom? Any hot takes?
JC: Well, just going back to the injuries, it’s pretty remarkable in the independence era how BYU just can’t get through a season without a quarterback. Last year’s change wasn’t due to an injury but it seems like most years during independence, for whatever reason, they’ve just been snake-bit with injuries. And it happens over and over and over again. So I guess we shouldn’t be surprised that Jaren Hall is the man at this point.
JD: Just the fact that, you know, this might be a blessing in disguise for BYU. As far as the quarterback thing, get Jaren Hall some experience, maybe while the schedule is a little bit easier. There are some, you know, drawbacks to traveling back east and all that. So, today Kalani said that this injury that to Zach is not season-ending. So, you know, maybe he’ll be back in time for the last couple of games of the season, maybe the bowl game if they get to one. So who knows. But I think it’s a great opportunity for Jaren Hall and I’m really interested to see how he does.
BG: My final take is I predicted a 42-35 win for BYU. It needs to be more than that. This team needs to put out the narrative that it can beat up on these guys. I mean, South Florida is not a good football team. I mean, UConn? So what? UConn’s awful, South Florida’s awful, BYU is a team that should handle these guys. I put forth a narrative that Toledo was a blip on the radar. Toledo’s much better than South Florida. I think we can all agree on that, but BYU needs to do what it can and just show these fans that, yeah, we’re back. We’re not this bad team. We’re not even this mediocre team. We can beat up on these guys. I don’t know if they can get it done. I think it might be too much to ask, just with the injuries and everything we’ve discussed, but that’s what needs to happen in my mind for BYU to put forth a productive narrative for the rest of the year, and particularly entering games against Boise State and Utah State. That’s my final take.
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