The BYU football team and head coach Kalani Sitake received a shot in the arm Saturday night when the Cougars defeated No. 14 Boise State, snapping a three-game losing streak. Still a work in progress and still sans starting quarterback Zach Wilson, who is nursing an injured thumb on his throwing hand, the Cougars now have two weeks to prepare for instate foe Utah State, which is always a tough out. Cougar Insiders Jay Drew, Jeff Call and Brandon Gurney break down the BYU victory and what it means. They also talk BYU hoops and Jake Toolson’s unique basketball journey. That and more on this week’s episode.
Brandon Gurney: Coming up on this edition of the Cougar Insiders podcast we get to talk about a win no one was anticipating. We’ll break down where this team is, what we saw from Baylor Romney and a little basketball preview with Jake Toolson. All this and more on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.
Welcome to this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast. I’m your host. I’m not Dick Harmon, I’m merely Brandon Gurney. With me is Jeff Call and Jay Drew, fantastic writers. And hey, we get to talk about a win, huh? I’ll bet you guys didn’t think we’d get to come in and talk about a win.
As always, we’re brought to you by Mr. Mac. And wow, how exciting was that game? I guess one thing that we can determine about Kalani Sitake teams is you never know what’s coming. You absolutely never know what’s coming. And I think that’s a very interesting dynamic about this team, kind of an unfortunate dynamic in a lot of ways, but also positive. You wrote a lot about that, Jay, what were your takeaways? If you could just kind of comment on the inconsistency of this team and how big a win this Boise State game was?
Jay Drew: Yeah, just predict the unpredictability. People ask you all the time to predict this, predict that. Under Kalani Sitake it has just been a wild ride. They win games you don’t think they have any business winning, they lose games you don’t think they have any business losing. And that was more of the same. The other thing, my takeaway, was just from the postgame news conference, just the passion and the desire that the players have to win and play well for Kalani. Everybody in the program knows that he’s at a crossroads with his contract and his future. And you can tell if the players had a vote, it would be 123-0 to keep Kalani. They just love the guy. And that’s just kind of one of my takeaways from the whole weekend.
BG: I wasn’t anticipating the emotion Isaiah Kaufusi showed when you asked him that question. I just thought he was going to give some cursory response. But you could tell he wanted it out there. He wanted his coach to know that he was saying that for him publicly. And I thought it was a poignant moment. I really did. I was struck by the emotion of it. And I think it revealed a lot just about how this team feels. What were your takeaways, Jeff, watching that game?
Jeff Call: Well, to me it was kind of like what Jay said. BYU wanted that game more. They wanted to win that game. I think, Boise State, you know, maybe they underestimated BYU based on what had happened. You can’t blame them for that. But what I saw was a BYU team that was aggressive, was confident, took some risks. And you know, they paid off. And you could tell that their preparation during the week was very, very good. Think of all the guys that are out for this team due to injury. And they’re able to have guys come in and step up and take roles. And it was pretty amazing to me how these guys were able to bounce back and, you look at the weather conditions were horrible and things, but the fans came out and they stayed and they cheered. And that third quarter was just remarkable. And we’ve seen that several times under Kalani, where they’ll have this big quarter that will just kind of explode. You know, it kind of comes out of nowhere. They may not do anything for a while then all the sudden they’ll put things together for a quarter or whatever. And that’s what we saw, I mean those plays to (Matt) Bushman. The trick plays, I guess you could call them, to Bushman were huge. Just really impressive that these guys were prepared, and they knew they needed to win. They were desperate for a win and they were able to get it.
BG: I think what this season’s taught me or just reemphasized to me is just how slight the margin of error is for BYU football and for college football in general. Literally three plays, three plays BYU doesn’t execute and this team hasn’t won a game all year, which is just remarkable to think about. But on the flip side, maybe just two or three plays against South Florida and Toledo and this team’s sitting pretty well and Kalani’s secure with his job. It’s just amazing how just one or two plays can just flip the whole course of a season for a team like BYU. And I’ve never seen anything like this. I’ve never seen a year where there’s just been so many specific little things that have just really changed a complete narrative. It’s really remarkable.
JC: With the exception of the Utah and Washington games, I mean, all the rest of the games have been this high-wire act, come down to the wire, like you said, one or two plays one way or another. You know, it’s just incredible how these games kind of end up like this.
JD: They could be anywhere from 0-7 to 5-2, or any anywhere in between, and they’re 3-4.
BG: Jay, I gotta give props to you. We were on the field toward the end of that game and when they overturned the measurement, determined that they were short, you were all in going for it on fourth down. You said that they’ve got to go for it. They can’t kick it. They cannot give that ball back to Boise State. I thought you were nuts when you first said it, but you argued your point, Kalani agreed with you, and they went for it. How big of a call was that? I just thoughtit was remarkable to execute that. How big was that for Kalani?
JD: I don’t think it was an overstatement to say that that was maybe a job-saving call. And it could have been a job-losing call. That was the biggest decision I think in Kalani Sitake’s four seasons and it worked out well. My theory was that Boise State had just scored two back-to-back touchdowns and had a two-point conversion with very, very little resistance. And I think if BYU had given them the ball back, no matter where they were, the 10-yard line, the 5, I think Boise State would have gone down and scored. All the momentum was in their favor. So that’s why I said you gotta go for it here on fourth down. You’ve just got to keep the ball out of their hands.
BG: That was the right call. A lot of amazing things happened that no one was expecting, but I think maybe front and center of those things was the play of Baylor Romney, which I thought was remarkable. I thought he looked really poised at the end of that South Florida game but you never know what to expect on a first start. What were your takeaways from Baylor Romney, Jeff, and did you expect that from him?
JC: Well, going into it, like you said, you never know with the first start. But I think — I can’t remember the exact stat, but out of the four or five last BYU quarterbacks that have started, their first game they’ve won. And I mean, who knows the rhyme or reason, some of it’s the opponents and matchups or whatever. But to say that I expected that out of Baylor Romney, I would not be telling the truth. I thought he’d do pretty well because, like you said, what we saw at the end of South Florida. He’s been in the program a while. So he’s gotten reps and things like that. But still, I mean, considering that on the offensive line you’re out several starters, you’ve got other skill position players out, and to be able to perform like that against a pretty good Boise State team was remarkable. And I think that gives BYU a lot of optimism for moving forward because you’ve got Zach Wilson, you’ve got Jaren Hall and now you’ve got Baylor Romney. You’ve got three guys that are pretty proven to this point.
BG: And Joe Critchlow’s no slouch either. He’s proven to be able to go out and win some games as well. I thought Sione Finau was — I mean, Baylor’s play outshined him but I think with Sione Finau you saw guy that kind of has that combination that BYU has been lacking — kind of that speed and that mobility through the line. It seems to me that (Emmanuel) Esukpa has that speed but he doesn’t really add those nuances to make extra yards, while Lopini has those but he doesn’t necessarily have that speed. And I think Sione Finau — what he showed I think could be a very positive thing moving forward. What else impressed you, Jay? I mean, it wasn’t just Baylor Romney. You had a patchwork offensive line and some other guys. What impressed you about what BYU was able to do?
JD: Yeah, I think a couple things. I have to point out Tyler Allgeier went in. Kavika Fonua suffered some sort of like, he had an eye patch over his eye coming off the field after the win. So Tyler Allgeier goes in there, leads the team in tackles. Converted running back playing linebacker. So I think he was phenomenal. And I’ll make a prediction. I think he’s going to be another Francis Bernard. I think he’s got just the grit and the tackling ability. And coming over from the offensive side, I think he’s going to be a mainstay at linebacker. So I would point out him. One other thing is, I was thinking the other day, speaking of the quarterbacks, if Jaren Hall had won that start at South Florida, BYU would literally have four quarterbacks on its roster who have won starts, who have a win under their belt. I’ll bet you couldn’t find another college program in the country with that. And I’m obviously speaking of Joe Critchlow being that fourth guy. So those are a few more takeaways.
BG: So I think this win, in a lot of ways, is ironically frustrating for a lot of fans because I think fans want an absolute determination on what their team is. And I think with this win the story’s not written on BYU. Everyone was assuming it was written after South Florida — they’re going to lose to Boise State, they’re going to lose to Utah State, and jobs are in jeopardy. But where this team is now, where Kalani is now is very much open for debate. And I don’t think anyone really knows what’s going to happen from here on out. Jay and I were talking about this right before the podcast, predicting what a Kalani Sitake-coached team is going to do from week to week is foolhardy. If you can do it, please let me know so I can sound smart in these podcasts and when I write about it, because I don’t know anymore. This team’s emotional.
Jay, you gave a really good comparison comparing him to Ron McBride. I think that’s pretty much spot on. But how does this fly? I mean, can he fly doing this, beating a team then losing to South Florida? How does he maintain a greater level of consistency? I don’t know how it’s done. I’ll ask you guys. Jeff, you want to take a hack at this?
JC: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I couldn’t answer that question. I think every time you kind of think you figured out this team and where they’re going then you’re surprised either one way or another. And not to make excuses. We bring this up all the time, but this injury stuff, I mean, that really throws a wrench into everything. I mean, that makes things unpredictable right there when from week to week you’ve got new guys coming in, starting for the first time, veterans sitting out. I mean, think about just having a guy like Dayan Ghonwoluku back. What an impact he made on Saturday coming back after sitting out that South Florida game. And then you have guys, like Jay said, Tyler Allgeier. A guys that not very many fans know much about or have heard of, and he comes in and does things. It’s just so unpredictable with these guys. We just don’t know what to expect. I don’t know what the explanation is. But I think these guys, with this win, right now, this coaching staff has got to figure out what it is they’ve done, if they even know, and push it forward and make this positive for the rest of the year. Because they’ve got some games left where they could end up salvaging the season, make it pretty decent.
BG: Yeah. And I think that’s the main frustration. Where’s this team going? Jay, you have any bright ideas, thoughts, any advice on how to make this thing more consistent?
JD: Well, yeah, drawing upon that Ron McBride analogy, where he was a very emotional coach and he had the ability to motivate his team. And I guess Jeff is asking, What can they do? What can they learn from this? I think the biggest thing they’ve learned is they’ve got to approach every week like this. Whether they’re playing a ranked team, or an unranked team, and they pretty much mentioned that in the press conference after the game. Players said, Hey, from here on out, I think Dayan Ghonwoluku said it best, we’re just going to act like we’re playing a ranked team. And that has to reflect in their preparation. And they just looked like a better prepared team against Boise State than they did the following two weeks against Toledo and South Florida. So that would be, I guess, if I were handing out any advice, it’s got to start with that preparation and that sense of urgency that has to be there from the very beginning of the week.
JC: And I think that’s one of the arguments as to why BYU struggled against Toledo and South Florida is that for four straight weeks they were up against these brand name opponents, ranked opponents, and then against Toledo and South Florida they just came out kind of flat and things. It’s difficult every week to be able to match that intensity and stuff. But yeah, Jay, you’re right. They’ve got to figure out a way to at least bring their A game every week. They just can’t slack off or be complacent. The margin of error is too thin. They just can’t do that.
BG: I think one takeaway Kalani might take away, regardless of the players and the strides they make, is just the introspection of the coaches and making individual coaches more accountable. There were significant changes behind the scenes going on. Kalani will never elaborate on that. He defends his guys, but (Jeff) Grimes being on the field — big thing. Kalani was absolutely more involved with the play-calling and all that. Just holding coaches more accountable, I think is something that Kalani could really take away from this. And maybe he needs to get more involved because it’s going to be his job. So anyway, it’s going to be interesting. It’s always interesting with BYU football. What are they going to do in two weeks against Utah State? Anything could happen literally.
So anyway, let’s move on to BYU basketball. Jeff, you’re going to be filing a story on Jake Toolson. What perspective can you just add or what’s the story going to be about? And just tell us about Jake?
JC: Yeah, well, Jake, I think is a really interesting story because he was at BYU, he left, went to UVU, made his name at UVU, was the WAC Player of the Year last year, as we know. And then when Mark Pope decided to come to BYU to take the head coaching job, Jake had interest from from Duke, from Virginia, a lot of pretty prominent programs. And he decided he wanted to come back to BYU and kind of finish what he started and things like that. There’s more to the story that I’ll have when it runs this week. But he’s a guy that I think people kind of have overlooked. But with all the other turmoil is going on with the program these last few months, I think people have kind of forgotten what a huge addition having Jake Toolson on this on this team is. So it’s been kind of fun — I talked to him at length couple weeks ago. And he’s a very mature guy, a real leader on this team. I think if I could say one thing, one impact he’s made so far on this program is just his leadership. I mean, he’s out there. He’s kind of like another coach out there. I mean, he knows the staff. He knows Mark Pope and the rest of the guys. He knows what the expectation is. And so he’s a guy that he can demand that from his teammates and that’s kind of what he’s brought so far to this program
BG: Jay, with Jake Toolson’s specific skill set and what you know of him as a player, what does he bring to the team just as far as that goes?
JD: I think he brings the mental toughness, which they were lacking a little bit last year. That’s part of the leadership that Jeff was talking about. He can make outside shots, presumably, WAC Player of the Year. And last year outside shooting came and went. I think, not to get off track, but I think Jesse Wade will also add to that — in the same category of mental toughness, having come from Gonzaga, leadership ability, and then also some outside shooting. The reports I’ve gotten from a couple players is that those two guys are just lights-out shooters, and that can only help. Then you’ve got TJ Haws returning from a minor knee injury and kind of directing the offense and all that. So it’s going to be a really interesting season with all the parts that they’re putting together in Mark Pope’s first year. So it’s going to be fun to watch.
BG: Just too bad none of those guys are five or six inches taller. They’re going to be missing some bigs, that’s for sure. But yeah, the other positions look great. So anyway, final words.
JD: OK, well, before we wrap up, Brandon, let’s say a few words about Mr. Mac, our sponsor. As many of our listeners probably know, Mac Christensen passed away last week. And so we just want to pay our respects to Mr. Christensen and all that he brought to the community. Not only for his fine business, but his work with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and other aspects of our community. He will be missed. Also just like to remind people that Mr. Mac is having a sale. Buy once one suit for $299 and get the second suit for $1.
On a personal level, I did that recently — my daughter got married, went in, I was going to buy a suit in the color that she wanted me to get, ended up taking advantage of the sale, got two suits, and I had a little change in my church calling and needed a suit. So it turned out for all the better. Totally 100% happy with the service that I got from Mr. Mac.
BG: So anyway, final words. This is my least favorite thing because I’m thinking oh, I need to say something really profound. I never really know what to say. So I’m going to think about it while I ask Jay for his final thoughts. What do you got for us?
JD: Yeah, just the football season. Really, it’s amazing what a win can do for a program and how it can inject some excitement. I wonder what would have happened if they had lost to Boise State. This would have been the longest two weeks with all kinds of speculation over Kalani’s future and what’s wrong with this program? And now, I think the next two weeks are going to be filled with a little bit of kind of fun controversy, and that is who’s going to be the starting quarterback against the Aggies? Is it going to be Baylor Romney after his performance? If Jaren Hall is healthy does the starter always get his job back? Some coaches are in that camp, some are saying it’s what have you done for me lately? So it’s going to be kind of fun, and it’s going to be a lot more fun to talk about than a coach’s future. So what a difference a win makes.
JC: Well, I was thinking this morning about how interesting is the placement of Utah State on the schedule. For whatever reason, it seems like from year to year to year there’s always issues with the quarterback when BYU plays Utah State. We could go way back to that famous, or infamous, Ben Olsen-Brett Engemann game. The injuries to Taysom Hill against Utah State there for a couple years. And then what was it two years ago, you had Beau Hodge, Koy Detmer Jr. come in and play and injuries and all this stuff. And anyway, here we go. We got Utah State coming up next and once again, it’s like well, who’s going to be the quarterback? I would presume Jaren would be the quarterback because he was the backup for a reason. But we don’t know if he’s gonna be healthy, so there’s a lot of kind of intrigue there. And you go up to Logan and we’ve all been up there. That’s a huge game up there in Logan and it should be a fun atmosphere. Not that happy that they just announced it’s an 8 p.m. kickoff. But oh well.
BG: So we’ll be rolling back into town what, 4 a.m.
JD: I feel bad for the fans. It’s going to be so cold. I mean, a November evening in Logan, that’s brutal.
BG: My final thought was this Boise State win, everything BYU did has to transfer over to Utah State. You have to get this win. They go up and they lay an egg to Utah State for the third year in a row and not a lot of what’s transpired against Boise State’s going to matter. It’s the same thing — you need to change the narrative. I’m so big on narratives and teams progressing, showing notable improvements. They lay that egg against Utah State, and we’re right back to square one with this team. This team’s got to continue the momentum, not just be as good as they were against Boise State but be better. Because Utah State is going to be more up for this game than Boise State was. You’re going to have a bye week to prepare, you have advantages. You figured some things out, run with it, make a progression and just keep this narrative going that you can figure this thing out. You figured some things out and just keep going. So we’ll see if that’s done. I mean, history indicates that’s not going to happen, but you want to go against history. You want to change that. So that would be my final thought on this.
Thanks again for joining us for another edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.
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