The BYU Cougars made it three wins in a row on Saturday, defeating fellow independent Liberty at LaVell Edwards Stadium. Even though the victory may have lacked the “wow” factor, BYU got the job done. Now, with games against Idaho State, UMass and San Diego State remaining, Cougar Insiders Jay Drew and Brandon Gurney take a look at the home stretch. Will Zach Wilson be back in the lineup Saturday? They also discuss the men’s basketball team — the good and bad from its loss to SDSU — and why SUU should not be taken lightly Wednesday. Lastly, they discuss the undefeated women’s soccer team as it prepares for its NCAA tourney run. That and more on this week’s episode.

Brandon Gurney: Coming up on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast, brought to you as always by Mr. Mac, we’ll be discussing the Liberty game. Kind of a meh game. What are our takes? What are the positives? What are the negatives? What can BYU fans look forward to for the rest of the year? We’ll break down the BYU basketball team. Tough loss against San Diego State but they showed some promise but some frustration as well. All this and more on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.

Welcome to this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast. Today it’s just Jay Drew and I. Dick Harmon is playing hooky, Jeff Call playing hooky as well. We really appreciate that. So you’re left with Jay Drew, one of the foremost authorities on BYU football, just a pillar in this community, myself who is somehow still employed by the Deseret News. And we get to talk about the Liberty game and the big Idaho State week, Jay.

Jay Drew: You gonna say your name?

BG: Oh yeah, my name is Brandon Gurney. Yeah, I am Brandon Gurney and yes, I really am employed by the Deseret News as of today. We’re kind of in the dog days of independence is kind of what I call November. After the Utah State game, you look ahead and BYU got it done. They were able to beat Liberty, but a really meh game. And you wrote about that, Jay. What were your perspectives of the game and just kind of a ho-hum 31-24 win?

JD: Yeah, I think the the word I used was unsatisfying. I think most BYU fans would probably agree with me. I think we asked the players and coaches about that after the game and they said, Oh, no a win’s a win. That was kind of the quote from Austin Lee and Khyiris Tonga also said, that most players fell back on. But BYU was just not impressive enough. This was a team that came off two impressive wins. Lot of eyes on them. Can they make it three in a row? Can they have another dominating performance? And they just couldn’t against a team that, I will say this, Liberty is better than its name. It has talented athletes, has a senior quarterback, has a really talented coaching staff that’s been around a long time. They’ve poured a lot of money into that program. But the national perspective hasn’t caught up yet where folks around the country think that Liberty is a decent opponent, including BYU fans. So I expected a fairly close game. But I expected BYU to be more dominating than it was and so that’s why I came up with that unsatisfying kind of moniker for the game.

BG: The unsatisfying thing for me, it’s kind of been that way throughout the season, but particularly against weak opponents, is this is the game where you expect line play to just overwhelm Liberty, you expect it to overwhelm Toledo, South Florida, teams like this and you just haven’t seen it on either side of the ball. You’ve seen glimpses but just a thing where we’re going to run it right at you every time and you can’t stop it because we are just physically dominant, I think is an aspect really missing from this BYU team on both sides of the ball. And you brought up Liberty’s offense — I was really impressed by their quarterback. I think their quarterback was able to maintain his poise and really make some good passes. But what struck me with BYU’s defense, and it’s kind of been that thing all year long, but just really looking at the defense. It is really, really young. And when you take into perspective, what they’re relying on in the personnel that’s really there — not really the makings of a dominant defense. And they’re kind of just playing like they should. Especially if you look at the linebackers, first-year players across the board, absolutely across the board save for Isaiah Kaufusi. Defensive line you have Khyiris Tonga. What else do you have? Zac Dawe hasn’t related developed into that pass rushing guy that he was hyped as in the preseason. And you have two really, really good defensive backs in Dayan Ghanwoluku and Austin Lee, who are really good, but other than that it is an exceptionally young BYU defense. You take a playmaker like Chaz Ah You out of this Liberty game, that plays a factor. So I know fans hate it, stop with the young and inexperienced thing, but it really is a thing with this BYU defense, and we’ll see if it gets better. They’re going to miss a lot of playmakers. But the line plays is something that just really jumps out at me that should be better than what we’ve seen. You just haven’t seen BYU impose its will like you’d think. I mean, Liberty shouldn’t be able to run against a BYU defense in my mind. But of course, you can excuse it with the young play and all that. But we’ll see if he gets better. I don’t know if the defensive linemen are coming up where you’re really going to see that for next year. But anyway, we’ll see what comes of it.

I thought the biggest news this past week was on the recruiting front, personally, where BYU was able to snare in a really good a wide receiver, which is a big need, because they’re losing some good receivers last year. And with recruiting, it’s kind of new age with recruiting that you see BYU just commit a bunch of guys you’ve never heard of before. That literally no one else is offering or even looking at. They’re able to get a guy named Isaiah Tupou that was offered by Utah and some Pac-12 schools, that just kind of speaks to yeah, BYU can still win these battles. Where BYU can still go out of state and find a top recruit where BYU is his first choice and that’s a real strength for BYU. So anyway, that’s kind of a tangent there. I’m kind of going all over the place with the Liberty game. Jay’s kind of looking at me like let’s move on, Brandon.

So we’re going to move on to Idaho State, UMass. What do you expect to see in these games, Jay?

JD: Well, like you said, it’s the dog days of November. This is what Tom Holmoe said would happen when BYU went independent. He said we’re going to front-load the schedule. The teams will play us then, the Power Five teams, the more well known teams will play us in September and October. But once they get really into the thick of their conference races, they’re not going to want to play us. And that’s what’s happening. They’re playing an independent last week, a FCS team this week and then UMass, another independent, next week. For BYU, I just think the program has gone through this. It’s nothing new, they need to just embrace it and work on improvement. Improvement within the program with an eye towards not just the bowl game or the last game against San Diego State, but an eye toward the future, next season, developing these young guys. So like you said, they don’t start the season out playing so many freshmen next year.

BYU’s playing 13 freshmen who have started, which is tied for the lead in the country with Purdue. That’s a really interesting stat to me. And they’ve got to figure out a way to get these players, as Dave Rose would always say, to grow old together. And I think if they do, they’ll have a much better program and they’ll have much better success in September and October, which is really when their season is make or break.

BG: Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, just to kind of beat my same drum, absolutely you want to see BYU dominate the line of scrimmage. You don’t want to see trick plays having to be run against UMass and Idaho State. There shouldn’t be any need for them. And you wrote about this. I think maybe Kalani went to the well a little too much. That fake field goal at the end of that game. Little too cute in my mind. You asked Kalani about it, he was kind of worked up at that time from some questions from an out of state reporter about independence, if it’s working. I don’t know that he loved those questions. What’s your take on BYU going to that well of trick plays? Has it kind of worn out its welcome? Maybe it’s just one of those things where we’ve been used to it being so successful against Boise State and then against Utah State that maybe it just doesn’t work sometimes. What’s your take on that, Jay?

JD: Well, Kalani was criticized a few games ago for not being aggressive enough. So I think we need to give him credit and Jeff Grimes and all the coaches credit for attacking more. And so it’s hard to criticize that when you’ve criticized the other side. Talking out both sides of your mouth is how Kalani put it to me Saturday night. Yeah, I just think, you know, you need to save some of that stuff. You’re going to need that against big time opponents. San Diego State is 7-2 right now, having lost in Nevada over the weekend. Maybe they’re not quite as formidable as a lot of people think. And then who knows in the bowl game, but they probably ought to be saving any things they have in their bag of tricks until the last two games.

BG: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, UMass and Idaho State. You don’t really need outscheme them all that much. It should be overwhelming enough just with those — I mean, those teams are really bad. Let’s be honest. I mean, Idaho State, FCS team. And UMass is just awful. Just a bad football team. Zach Wilson update. When do you anticipate him returning? It seems like he’s ahead of schedule. It seems like he’s gonna be able to practice pretty soon. What’s in store for Zach Wilson, as far as you know?

JD: Yeah. Kalani was asked that in the Monday press briefing today, and he said that he’s been cleared, he’s going to practice this week. Jeff Grimes, offensive coordinator, said the same thing. Neither would say if Zach Wilson will start. Jeff Grimes kind of said hey, he won the starting spot. He was our best player in fall camp. So if he’s healthy, why not? That’s the best indication I got that I think I could really honestly see Zach Wilson starting against Idaho State. I can see Baylor Romney coming in on relief. I can also see Joe Critchlow getting a bunch of snaps. I think Jaren Hall is a few games still away. They’re being ultra-careful with him, as they should.

BG: Yeah, with Jaren Hall, that second concussion, just like whoa, this is a thing. I mean, the first one you can kind of overlook it. The second one it’s like, yeah. And you really don’t want to risk anything against Idaho State and UMass, which is really unfortunate. I was really liking what I saw from Jaren Hall. I think with his run game, what they were developing there was really exciting. So it’s an unfortunate thing there.

BYU basketball. You weren’t able to go the basketball game but I was able to watch the team against San Diego State, which had some good and some bad. But the bad you kind of anticipated and it’s rebounding. It is all about rebounding. I don’t know the exact number but I think San Diego State was able to outrebound BYU by 15. And guess what, this is going to be a thing. I don’t see how BYU can compensate for that. I asked coach Pope, who’s fantastic by the way, I hope he never changes. He’s so forthcoming. Man, he gives you good quotes and postgame interviews. But um, I was asking about Jake Toolson and he was just raving about the confidence he saw and all that. But he says he’s got to rebound. It’s like, wow, you’re 6-foot-5 guy, yeah, I guess he does. He’s one of the tallest guys on the team. But the second chance points killed them, not being able to close out on No. 20. I’m forgetting his name right now. A big thing. But the one thing BYU has to be is they have to be deadly from 3-point range. And in that game you saw a really, really good stretch where they were able to really exploit from the outside and all that, that that’s where they made half their 3-pointers. Otherwise they were unremarkable from 3-points range and that has to be more consistent. And that’s been such a thing over the past few years, which just really hasn’t made sense to me, is BYU should be a really good shooting team. But for whatever reason they’ve really lacked in that. The schedule continues to be tough before Yoeli Child comes, which is really unfortunate for the BYU basketball team. But fans have just got to expect this team’s going to get dominated down low. I just don’t see how you can compensate for the lack of height they have down there. I mean, you have Colby Lee and Dalton Nixon and that’s it. And Dalton Nixon is not really that guy. He really shouldn’t be that guy but he has to play like that guy. So it’s going to be a frustrating thing but I think there’s a lot of potential, there’s a lot of things to like. I think Jake Toolson showed last game why he was such a big transfer for BYU. He really played well. And Alex Barcello really looks like a guy that fits the bill as a quality transfer. TJ Haws continues to improve his game. There’s a lot of potential and I think when Yoeli comes back this is going to be a team that can, man I want to say potentially challenge for a West Coast Conference championship, but as long as you have Gonzaga where they’re at, it’s going to be tough. But I expect this BYU team to contend for the second place in the West Coast Conference and give Gonzaga a challenge. I really do. I think the talent’s there with Yoeli Childs who’s really good. So did you have any thoughts on the basketball team, Jay?

JD: Well, I think you didn’t mention that they really miss Gavin Baxter. I mean, that’s the guy that that shoulder injury that took him out for the season was just a killer, just absolute. That was the one. I thought they could overcome the Yoeli Childs nine-game suspension, but when Gavin went out they really suffered a big blow. I think that can’t be understated. He was one of the few guys that they could do without. I will say after watching the tape replay of the game, they’re darn lucky that Alex Barcello was given that year by the NCAA to play. I wonder where they’d be without him. But like you just said, they are who we thought they were. They’re very, very limited inside, and they’re going to live and die by the 3-point shot. They lived by it in that opener against Fullerton, and they died by it against San Diego State.

And I think we should mention they’ve got a tougher game than would have been expected on Wednesday, Southern Utah comes into the Marriott Center with a 2-0 record, having knocked off Nebraska in double overtime, Nebraska of the Big 12. At Lincoln, in double overtime, Southern Utah. This game is their Super Bowl. I mean, they’ve got guys on that staff that coached at BYU like John Wardenburg. Southern Utah is going to give BYU all it wants. And just like UVU did a couple years ago, came into the Marriott Center and won, I wouldn’t be surprised if SUU doesn’t give BYU their best shot.

BG: That’s a really good point. Just to add to Gavin Baxter, I felt that maybe more so than any other player on the roster, he was due for the most improvement. Going from that freshman year off a mission into that sophomore year. So yeah, tough, tough thing there. Anyway, any closing thoughts, any hot takes?

JD: I think we’ve touched it a lot. I think it’s a fun time. I think we ought to mention that BYU’s women’s soccer team is finding out its NCAA seed today. They went through their season undefeated, first BYU soccer team to ever do that. That deserves kudos, accolades and all that. BYU’s women’s volleyball team is nationally ranked, its men’s golf team is doing really well. So although football has been kind of mediocre this season and basketball is off to a little bit of a shaky start, men’s basketball, I mean. BYU fans have a lot to look forward to in the next couple weeks with that soccer and volleyball team.

BG: Yeah, just to add to the soccer, I’ll be covering them. I’ve covered three really good BYU soccer teams. The first one was in 2012 where they had an exceptional defense. 2016, where they had an exceptional offense. Jen Rockwood believes that this year, 2019, they have both. And she’s really optimistic. I’ve rarely seen a coach who is that forthcoming about how high her expectations are. It has been so good for this soccer team all year. There’s really not a weakness and how it validates itself is going to be really interesting. This is a team that can contend for a national championship, there’s no question in my mind. We’ve seen BYU be able to do it in years past and I think this team absolutely has what it what it takes to make a very deep run in the NCAA tournament. So anyway, thanks for joining us on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.

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