After a pair of simple victories for the BYU Cougars, things are likely to get more complicated Saturday at San Diego State. The Aztecs’ defense is formidable (maybe second only to the Utes’ defense on BYU’s schedule) and will provide a good measuring stick. Cougar Insiders Jay Drew and Brandon Gurney weigh in on the matchup and debate what is needed for the Cougars’ season to be considered a success. They also talk BYU basketball (the Cougars are in Hawaii this week at the prestigious Maui Invitational), BYU women’s soccer (it plays Stanford Friday in the Elite Eight of the NCAA tourney), and cross-country (the men won an NCAA championship last weekend while the women placed second). That and more on this week’s episode. 

Brandon Gurney: Welcome to this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast, as always brought to you by Mr. Mac. In this edition will will recap the game against UMass, what to look forward to when BYU travels to take on San Diego State, the basketball team in Maui, and soccer. Women playing extremely well, about to enter the round of eight against No. 1 Stanford. All this and more on this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast.

Welcome to this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast, brought to you always by Mr. Mac. With me today, Jeff Call and Dick Harmon are playing hooky. But we have the stalwart Jay Drew here to share his hot takes on on BYU football. And I’m Brandon Gurney, they put me in charge of this podcast or I guess emceeing or whatever. But Jay, fresh in from Massachusetts. Thrilling game.

Jay Drew: Well, it really wasn’t that thrilling. It was different, but Kalani Sitake said in the news conference that I just attended that they got something out of it, that it was a positive experience all the way around, and that most importantly, they got some younger guys and less experienced guys chances to play. And they also felt like they reestablished some confidence in the starters who just moved through the UMass defense like a hot knife through butter in that second quarter. I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed that sort of domination in the 11 years that I’ve covered the Cougars.

So yeah, all in all, I think they’re happy it’s in the rearview mirror, they’re ready to turn their attention to a really, really good San Diego State team. So all in all, they got what they needed out of it, and they’re ready to move on.

BG: In my mind it was really hard to take anything positive out of this game, but you could take something negative. But the one positive that I thought you could take is just the third and fourth string, the development of that. First half, I mean, I don’t think you could have scripted anything. Maybe a quicker start, you know if you’re going to ...

JD: They did have to punt on their first possession.

BG: Yeah, yeah, they did. But so what, they scored 42 points in the second quarter. But the second half. Holy cow, I mean, just to paint a picture for you guys. I watched the game with my dad, he fell asleep. I kind of lost attention and then midway through — they’re coming to the four quarter and it’s like man, UMass put up some points. It didn’t look as big of a blowout. Some disappointment in that that UMass was able to put up 24 points?

JD: Sure there was. And I think Kalani said that after the game and he said it today again that yeah, they expect better out of their second- and third-stringers. He did mention UMass left its starters in, it was senior day. It was their final game of the season. And it was obvious they wanted to do everything they could to slap lipstick on a pig and they did that as far as scoring at the end. There were some bright spots for BYU backups. Hayden Livingston played reasonably well at safety.

My takeaway was one of the biggest concerns BYU had in that game was that Jake Oldroyd missed another field goal. It actually clanged off the upright. And I mean, he’s a first-teamer. He’s a main line guy. And they’ve got a problem there. I think he’s missed three of his last four field goal attempts. I’d have to look it up. But that’s a concern, because this game coming up is going to be really close. Every San Diego State game is close, no matter who they are playing, and it could come down to a field goal. And right now I don’t see a lot of confidence among the coaches and the teammates in Jake Oldroyd. So that’s something I think they gotta fix.

BG: It’s gonna be interesting because Skylar Southam’s a really good backup. He’s a guy that they can turn to so it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

I’m really interested in the San Diego State game. San Diego State hasn’t blown the doors off anyone. That’s not what they do. But I think a very notable score was they went to Hawaii, where Hawaii just runs over everyone, and they limited the Rainbow Warriors to 14 points. I thought that was really significant. You look down their schedule, it’s not a team that gives up even 20 points very often. This is going to be a big test for this BYU offense, maybe the biggest test that this offense has faced since University of Washington. I really believe that. I think San Diego State State is that good. I think it’s probably a better defense than Boise State. Offensively, they’ve lacked a lot of punch. I think BYU’s defense can do a lot to maintain that. But as far as these offensive changes, and we’ve heard a lot of talk about just the progression they’ve made on offense, doling out different responsibilities, figuring some things out, this is the test. This is a really big test. They’ve kind of been sleepwalking the last month, haven’t had the quality of opponent to really validate the changes they’ve made. This is the game to do it and it’s going to be a severe test, on the road, against a very good defense. I’m very anxious to see this. I’m very interested to see how Zach Wilson performs, how the offensive line can stand up. It’s a big test.

JD: Absolutely. San Diego State ranks in the top 25 in almost every statistical defensive category. Offensively, they’re in the bottom, around 100 in most of them. So absolutely. I think this is the best defense BYU will face since Utah in the opener. I think it’s better than Washington. I think it’s better than Boise State’s. I can’t really think of another defense that’s been even that good. USC, I guess, because they’re a Power Five team you have to say their defense is good.

But you’re absolutely right, Zach Wilson, I think it was key he did not play particularly great against Idaho State in his first game back from injury, but against UMass he was sharp. He was 17 of 20. Marched them down the field, made all the right decisions. Two of the three passes that were incomplete could have been caught. The DB was right there but the ball was right on the money. So I think that was important for him to hit his stride in that game and to come into this game with a lot of confidence.

We’ve got to mention the running back situation. They lost Sione Finau, which can only hurt them. They’re down to Jackson McChesney and you had to move Tyler Allgeier over from the other side of the ball. So that could be a factor, not only in just running the ball but in pass protection. BYU relies on its running backs to sometimes chip the defensive end, to pick up blitzers, and San Diego State does that a lot. And I think that’ll be a key is how well these young running backs stand up.

BG: There any chance Emmanuel Esukpa is going to be playing?

JD: I don’t think so. He didn’t make the trip back east. He played a couple plays against Idaho State, but I think that was just for ceremonial purposes on senior day. So I think they’re going to have to go with McChesney and Lopini Katoa, who was out of concussion protocol and played against UMass, and then Tyler Allgeier. I think those will be their three guys.

BG: I’m excited for this game. That’s a good game to end the season. We’re going to find out a lot about this BYU team against San Diego State, I think. So very interesting game after a month of just kind of sleepwalking through a very lackluster schedule.

BG: Let’s turn to basketball. BYU is 3-2. I think that’s probably what most people anticipated, maybe 2-3 for the negative fans. But I think 3-2’s about what you’d expect. Maybe flip flop the loss to Boise State with the win against Houston is kind of what most people anticipated. But now they’re in Maui. Jeff Call is there enjoying it. Way to go, Jeff. Very jealous while it’s snowing here. But, what are your early observations from the Mark Pope era, Jay? I know you don’t cover basketball as much anymore but you’ve probably seen the team play a few times. But what are your takeaways through the early season?

JD: Yeah, I think it’s about like you said, where they were expected to be. I mean, this is a team that could be 5-0. They could be 1-4. I mean, they played a lot of close games as expected. Obviously they’re missing size inside without Yoeli for four more games and then with Gavin Baxter’s injury. So about what I expected. I think if there’s an issue, it’s their late-game performance. They did not click very well in the latter part of the Houston game until the very end. They didn’t take care of the ball very well. Boise State both in end of regulation and the end of overtime, they did not play well. And I think they really lack a big-time, go-to guy like Yoeli Childs would be There’s no question at the end of that Boise State game, if Yoeli was on the floor he would have been getting the ball. So I think that’s probably the issue is just closing out games and half-court offense execution.

BG: I think they’re still figuring some things out. I think Jake Toolson and TJ Haws and Alex Barcello are still experiencing a learning curve on how to play with one another. I maintain, I think I’ve said this for four or five years straight. TJ Haws needs the ball in his hands. He should always have the ball in his hands. The offense shouldn’t be going through other people, in my mind. I think that’s where he excels. I think he suffers when he doesn’t have that. He’s not a spot-up shooter. He’s a guy that creates, and I feel a lot of times against Boise State that they went away from TJ Haws being the main guy. And he struggled, I understand that and that’s obviously the counterargument. But my my argument to that would be you take him out of what he does best and he’s not gonna play as well. So see that and maybe some more give-and-take with Jake Toolson as he finds his role and all that. But you’re going to see inconsistency from this team. When you don’t have that consistent, down low presence that Yoeli Childs can provide. With a new team kind of learning a new system, how to play with one another, you’re going to see inconsistency. And I think that’s what you see from this BYU team.

At Maui, that first game is so important. Just getting that first win. You don’t want to be on the B card playing Chaminade. You want to see them against Kansas. Sure, they’ll probably get their doors blown off and whatnot. But you want to win that first game.

JD: Yeah, this game tonight against UCLA is really important. Not only, like you said to advance in the tournament, not be in the loser’s bracket game, but also for NCAA seeding purposes or tournament at-large bid purposes down the road. I think if they can pull off a couple wins in Maui and point to the fact that Yoeli Childs didn’t play I think, come March when the bids are handed out. I think the committee might be able to look at that and say, yeah, this is a pretty good BYU team that played well without Yoeli Childs and now they have him back. And assuming they go through the WCC season with only, you know, a handful of losses I think, make a long story short, yes tonight’s game is really huge for for NCAA at-large bid purposes.

BG: OK, I’ll take this next segment; you can take the next one because it’s soccer, Jay, and I don’t think you — no you did you cover them.

JD: Yeah I covered, I can’t remember who they played. Louisville?

BG: You outed yourself. So I’m going to ask you a question.

JD: Oh, Boise State is who they played.

BG: Wow, this team is good. This team is really good. Second round of the NCAA tournament, 4-0. Round of 16, 3-0. North Carolina State, Louisville, two quality ACC teams and both those teams looked completely overmatched to my mind. They weren’t close, the games were never in question, and BYU was able to do what it wanted. Sure, BYU enjoys a significant home advantage but this team is rolling. And a lot of fans know about it because there was standing-room only on that Saturday match in the freezing cold. And man, they were treated to a show. A very good defense. The goalie, Sabrina Davis, had a lot of really good saves, they had the midfield, they have the defense and they have a really good goal scorer in Elise Flake, which is a really important thing in soccer. And this team has a lot of potential. They’re going to need all of it when they take on Stanford, the No. 1 team in the country. I don’t think there’s much debate from anyone about that. They have to travel to Stanford, if they can get through Stanford, you have to talk national championship for this team because they are that good. So what’s your take about this team?

JD: Yeah, we should mention that game against Stanford is Friday, day after Thanksgiving. 3 p.m. over in Palo Alto. If you’re a BYU fan in the Bay Area, I think it’s a worthy way to spend Black Friday. Get over there and support BYU. My take on this is why are BYU and Stanford, the two best record teams in the country, playing in an Elite Eight game? And I think it all comes back to that controversial seeding that BYU got a No. 2 seed when it probably deserved a No. 1 seed. Now they have to go play the overall No. 1 seed. Now they have to go play on their home field. I think I read today, a tweet by Gregg Wrubell that Stanford has won like 38 consecutive home games, Stanford women’s soccer. So huge, huge task for the BYU soccer team. But I think if they can not be intimidated that they can rise to the occasion. If they can get some support there from Cougar nation, I think they can hang with the Cardinal.

BG: I love conspiracy theories and my conspiracy theory is just off the charts for this match, because the championship match for the women’s game is Sunday. BYU will not play Sunday and they’ll have to change that and I really wonder if we’re going to see equitable officiating. Yeah, I’m going there. Absolutely. I don’t trust the NCAA at all. And I really don’t trust them when they deal with BYU.

So fans, if you want something to lean back on, I just gave it to you. The refs, the NCAA messing with the Cougars game. But this team, I believe they can give Stanford a really good match and it would not surprise me at all if they win this match. So there you go. Cross-country, National championship, good stuff. Well, what’s your take on that?

JD: Yeah, they’ve been knocking at the door for many years, men and women. The BYU men won in Terre Haute, Indiana. Won the national championship, their first. BYU women were second, just a phenomenal showing. I mean, you got to give credit to Ed Eyestone and the women’s coach, Diljeet Taylor, but she’s awesome. As a matter of fact, she’s got that program right at the top. So just a great, great day for BYU and I think it was the school’s 11th national championship. I think we wrote about it in the Deseret News. So just phenomenal effort by the cross-country stars from the men’s and women’s teams.

BG: OK, any final words and any takes from what you’ll be looking for against the Aztecs on Saturday or anything else?

JD: You know, I’ve been thinking about whether I want to call this a successful season for BYU football. I think it’s been impressive, the turnaround after the 2-4 start, but I wrote in this morning’s Deseret News — Monday morning’s — that I think they have to win one of the next two games, or both, to call it a successful season. I think if they lose at San Diego State and they lose in the bowl game, that tarnishes a lot of what they’ve accomplished. So it’s a big stakes game for BYU. I don’t know if it’s huge for San Diego State anymore because they got knocked out of the Mountain West championship game with that loss to Hawaii that you mentioned. But I think to call this a successful season, BYU needs to win one of the next two games

BG: The offense needs to validate itself. The offensive line — there was a lot of hype about this group. That dominating effort, that ability to protect a quarterback consistently and maintain a consistent running attack, and that’s going to be really tough now that Sione Finau’s not going to be able to play. You want to see it. I want to see that against a quality defense. Sustaining long drives, putting up — if BYU scores more than 24 points it should win this game, in my mind. Doing that against San Diego State’s going to be difficult and I think it’s all on the offense in this one. So we’ll see what comes about. It’s going to be a close game. In no scenario do I see this as a blowout by either side. So it’s going to be a very intriguing game, one I’m very excited to see.

Anyway, that should do it for this edition of Cougar Insiders podcast once again, brought to you by Mr. Mac, and we’ll see you guys next week.

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