How do you figure? Utah had more recent success, and also has more long-term

Jul 11, 2018
10:20:32am

Scratch All-American

success. BYU has more mid-term success. Basically, BYU was a better football program for about a 25 year period. After that and before that, Utah was equal or better. So you have to define "history of athletic success" pretty narrowly to reach your conclusion.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jul 11, 2018 at 10:20:32am

Message modified by Scratch on Jul 11, 2018 at 10:42:23am

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Scratch

Bio page: Scratch
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Messages

Author

Time

Most wont care, ignore if that’s you. The story of Utah to the PAC 12...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:27am

Is it called “Seeds of Betrayal?”

2FarGone

7/11/18 9:32am

Why would you be under the assumption Utah cares about BYU?

TNT

7/11/18 9:38am

Eh.I don't think many people were under the delusion that UofU would reciprocate

LeftOfNormal

7/11/18 9:39am

I agree, I just wanted to remind the Yewts of their treasonous behavior

2FarGone

7/11/18 9:44am

"treasonous behavior". 😹

Bluegoogles

7/11/18 10:00pm

Again, BYU was never taking any such stance:

Scratch

7/11/18 9:51am

Perhaps you could remind me of this act...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:48am

*Sigh* Can we please put this silly narrative to rest? Rondo Fehlberg, of all

Scratch

7/11/18 9:50am

This isn't true.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:08am

that must make you feel really good, it's always nice to rationalize

Cougarclaw

7/11/18 10:24am

Your point about others' involvement is important...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:33am

BYU actively tried to leave Utah behind and couldn't.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:36am

Not that there was anything wrong with BYU doing so; BYU was and should have

Scratch

7/11/18 10:39am

Agreed. It's just false to suggest otherwise.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:42am

I get it; that helps you guys feel okay about all of this. Human nature. I've

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:00am

You need a hug buddy?

displacedute

7/11/18 11:04am

Says the guys who are fussy over one quote from the 90s

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:11am

RE: Says the guys who are fussy over one quote from the 90s

displacedute

7/11/18 11:18am

RE: I get it; that helps you guys feel okay about all of this. Human nature.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:06am

Not true. Utah bent over backwards to get BYU in the WAC in 1962. And every

Scratch

7/11/18 10:38am

RE: that must make you feel really good, it's always nice to rationalize

Bluegoogles

7/11/18 6:27pm

Well that's on BYU then not Utah, they did it the right way

palangi

7/11/18 10:30am

Worse than that - they leveraged their plan for BYU, TCU, BSU, yew P5 inclusion

Choke

7/11/18 11:44am

I know this is from a Utah perspective but zero mention of BYU in the process

mudpupper

7/11/18 9:34am

Step 1: Ignore logical thought. Step 2: Invite Utah.

dYrtbYkerYder

7/11/18 9:36am

<< Deleted >>

Cretin

7/11/18 9:37am

A quick scan of the article tells me the P12 kind of blew it.

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 9:38am

Great point

TNT

7/11/18 9:39am

That scenario played out pretty publicly...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:46am

I think your memory is correct, but I think what made it seem like a long shot

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 9:57am

I'm trying to recall the timeline now...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:03am

Possible. As you said, it's been a while and my timeline could be fuzzy.

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 10:13am

But could USC, Oregon, or UCLA live with that imbalance?

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:14am

Obviously not as the option was never on the table.

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 10:20am

There were a few problems with a P16. P10 presidents didn't want Ok St, TTech,

Scratch

7/11/18 10:16am

To get OU and UT you take whoever you need to.

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 10:26am

This NYT article seems to support that scenario.

Everyman

7/11/18 11:35am

The takeaway from this piece is how far apart the PAC and UT were

jrj84105

7/11/18 11:07am

They were never getting OU without OSU.

mudpupper

7/11/18 9:50am

And then the PAC declined the pair when they applied to join.

jrj84105

7/11/18 11:09am

A picture is worth a thousand words. Or just 2.

Ragnar Danneskjold

7/11/18 9:38am

So let me get this straight, not only does Utah help Colorado get in, but they

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 9:39am

Actively work to keep BYU out? Huh? Where do you see that?

Scratch

7/11/18 9:54am

According to the article, and in Hill‘s own words, he was excited to keep the

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 10:32am

Seriously? There was no way BYU was getting in no matter what; they would never

Scratch

7/11/18 10:41am

There's that justification I was talking about. Rather than believe the simplest

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 10:54am

The P10 possibly taking 2 Utah teams is the most likely explanation? Plus,

Scratch

7/11/18 11:04am

Right, because the PAC never takes more than one team from a state.

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:22am

You understand that things had changed since the last time the P10 had expanded

Scratch

7/11/18 11:29am

Okay, I'll agree that was a bad argument. I hadn't actually seen that Fehlberg

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:39am

Hill recognized that it was unlikely, but with something like this you don't

Scratch

7/11/18 11:42am

What is the Feldberg quote?

OPINIONS

7/11/18 11:15am

Ask the Ute fans, they've been talking about it above. Must have been a doozy

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:19am

RE: What is the Feldberg quote?

Scratch

7/11/18 11:22am

In your own words, "Fehlberg suggested Utah." Honest answer: do you think Hill

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:26am

Probably not. Hill knew what was the most likely approach to get Utah in. It

Scratch

7/11/18 11:31am

Fair enough; I'm okay with that. But Ute fans could at least drop the argument

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:32am

I have no reason to doubt what Fehlberg said.

Scratch

7/11/18 11:44am

I think we're going in circles now

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:45am

Sorry, I thought I was clear. I have no reason to think Hill mentioned BYU to

Scratch

7/11/18 11:54am

My bad

Extra Biscuits

7/11/18 11:55am

Hill was already in cahoots with Colorado before he ever met with Scott.

OPINIONS

7/11/18 12:01pm

Hill was watching out for Utah and maximizing their chance of getting in.

OPINIONS

7/11/18 11:12am

Chris Hill is so smart

Doc Buff

7/11/18 4:48pm

lol. The two situations aren't even close to the same.

couldge

7/11/18 6:01pm

There wasn't any bad PR. The only people riled up were BYU fans. I thought

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 12:19pm

There was plenty of bad PR. I guess you're too blind to see it.

couldge

7/12/18 12:38pm

A mailbag piece, a local article from a guy that rarely writes, and an

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 12:57pm

Some national writers mentioned it...

Tokolosh

7/12/18 1:01pm

Ok you said NO BAD PR

couldge

7/12/18 3:45pm

To answer your question...

lilpenny

7/11/18 1:34pm

BYU was never mentioned in the article. Sunday play was.

Doc Buff

7/11/18 4:43pm

Sad that BYU was never considered when it was better than Utah in every way. Except the research university area.

Baron

7/11/18 9:44am

But BYU was not better in every way. BYU is a fine school and has a strong...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:53am

What reasons? That they have better than BYU?

Baron

7/11/18 9:55am

And here it is straight from Scott:

Baron

7/11/18 9:58am

BYU does not add more TV dollars. Those contracts were market based...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:11am

BYU would add more in each market. You can't say that it would have played no role. You know that BYU gets more

Baron

7/11/18 10:12am

But it was not eyeball based, it was market based.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:16am

Lol, BYU's athletic history was not superior. The more recent history, which

BigBrotherUte

7/11/18 11:55am

Recent football success, academic rankings in many disciplines, greater emphasis

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:58am

Recent Football sucess played no role. Academic rankings? BYU is a better undergrad institution and

Baron

7/11/18 10:01am

Athletic success did play a role. Same Scott quote you posted above...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:13am

History of athletic achievement and that has BYU ahead.

Baron

7/11/18 10:17am

The 70s-80s were kind to BYU. But the separation between the schools

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:20am

How do you figure? Utah had more recent success, and also has more long-term

Scratch

7/11/18 10:20am

Nope. I am talking all sports more than just football, which was a

Baron

7/11/18 10:24am

Football drives the bus.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:43am

Yewtah's brand had a strong enough flame that it was reasonable for the P10...

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 10:05am

Saying that BYU is better in every way is an overstatement. However,

Lynk

7/11/18 10:00am

There are many Utah departments far better than at BYU and it is not even close

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:18am

You're right. BYU fans insist on quoting hard number metrics when making their point. So annoying.

kccougar

7/11/18 10:45am

No, they focus on the one or two hard numbers that benefit them...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:55am

Tell us again why you started this thread?

kccougar

7/11/18 11:01am

Because there is some interest in the Utes and/or how realignment went down

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:10am

Lololol wut

immacougar

7/11/18 10:46am

And there are many BYU departments that are far better than U departments and it

Lynk

7/11/18 10:47am

RE: And there are many BYU departments that are far better than U departments

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:57am

Like I said, the U has some fine programs, and there are some programs

Lynk

7/11/18 11:42am

Not trying to be hostile or offended...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:54am

You and I agree.

Lynk

7/11/18 12:03pm

Not buying it. Utah has a few solid programs, but on the whole BYU is stronger

unctoothman

7/11/18 11:26am

<< Deleted >>

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:53am

If the reason for P10 expansion was money, BYU was a far better fit.

mudpupper

7/11/18 10:00am

Exactly, if BYU wasn't a religious school and a research institute, it would be in over Utah. No questions asked.

Baron

7/11/18 10:06am

TL;DR version

Gustav

7/11/18 9:55am

Here's the history:

Left Shark Coug

7/11/18 10:03am

This is what BYU should have said to the BIG XII:

sanitarium

7/11/18 10:04am

Unfortunately that door is now closed

TNT

7/11/18 10:31am

I see why the article is getting thumbs downs here, but that was good journalism

OPINIONS

7/11/18 10:06am

Utah or Kansas would be if ATM went to the SEC.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:13am

<< Deleted >>

Everyman

7/11/18 5:50pm

What I gleamed from it

Twin Roots

7/11/18 10:08am

*gleaned

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:24am

Because that matters

Twin Roots

7/11/18 10:36am

It does. Unless you were telling us the info made you resemble Edward Cullen.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:56am

This line is great:

Cougarclaw

7/11/18 10:08am

If B School and Accounting were all that mattered you might have something

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:25am

There are lots of other departments that are excellent departments beyond the B

Lynk

7/11/18 11:22am

Yes, lots of departments to compare...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:34am

Agreed, I do not think it was illogical for the U to be included.

Lynk

7/11/18 11:56am

BYU's a fine school but your blue goggles are on too tight. Keep in mind that

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 1:24pm

My uneducated opinion

Choke

7/11/18 10:10am

So Hill and Young spent years laying the groundwork

CallingDingo

7/11/18 10:11am

Prop 8 would have killed any groundwork laid.

Cougar Insider

7/11/18 11:34am

This line from Hill stands out to me:

HBCoug

7/11/18 10:20am

Sadly, for far too many BYU fans, the lack of self awareness is terminal.

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