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Jul 11, 2018
10:33:38am

Tokolosh All-American

Your point about others' involvement is important...

but you are completely dismissing a quote that is far from just a "drive-by". It was the man charged with the discussions and potential negotiations for the move. He wasn't just a casual observer or a low level employee. He was in the thick of it and his recollections bears far more weight than you are giving it.

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Tokolosh

Bio page: Tokolosh
Joined: Jun 9, 2004
Last login: Apr 24, 2024
Total posts: 60,404 (5,635 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Most wont care, ignore if that’s you. The story of Utah to the PAC 12...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:27am

Is it called “Seeds of Betrayal?”

2FarGone

7/11/18 9:32am

Why would you be under the assumption Utah cares about BYU?

TNT

7/11/18 9:38am

Eh.I don't think many people were under the delusion that UofU would reciprocate

7/11/18 9:39am

I agree, I just wanted to remind the Yewts of their treasonous behavior

2FarGone

7/11/18 9:44am

"treasonous behavior". 😹

Bluegoogles

7/11/18 10:00pm

Again, BYU was never taking any such stance:

Scratch

7/11/18 9:51am

Perhaps you could remind me of this act...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:48am

*Sigh* Can we please put this silly narrative to rest? Rondo Fehlberg, of all

Scratch

7/11/18 9:50am

This isn't true.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:08am

that must make you feel really good, it's always nice to rationalize

Cougarclaw

7/11/18 10:24am

Your point about others' involvement is important...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:33am

BYU actively tried to leave Utah behind and couldn't.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:36am

Not that there was anything wrong with BYU doing so; BYU was and should have

Scratch

7/11/18 10:39am

Agreed. It's just false to suggest otherwise.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:42am

I get it; that helps you guys feel okay about all of this. Human nature. I've

7/11/18 11:00am

You need a hug buddy?

displacedute

7/11/18 11:04am

Says the guys who are fussy over one quote from the 90s

7/11/18 11:11am

RE: Says the guys who are fussy over one quote from the 90s

displacedute

7/11/18 11:18am

RE: I get it; that helps you guys feel okay about all of this. Human nature.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:06am

Not true. Utah bent over backwards to get BYU in the WAC in 1962. And every

Scratch

7/11/18 10:38am

RE: that must make you feel really good, it's always nice to rationalize

Bluegoogles

7/11/18 6:27pm

Well that's on BYU then not Utah, they did it the right way

palangi

7/11/18 10:30am

Worse than that - they leveraged their plan for BYU, TCU, BSU, yew P5 inclusion

Choke

7/11/18 11:44am

I know this is from a Utah perspective but zero mention of BYU in the process

mudpupper

7/11/18 9:34am

Step 1: Ignore logical thought. Step 2: Invite Utah.

7/11/18 9:36am

<< Deleted >>

Cretin

7/11/18 9:37am

A quick scan of the article tells me the P12 kind of blew it.

7/11/18 9:38am

Great point

TNT

7/11/18 9:39am

That scenario played out pretty publicly...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:46am

I think your memory is correct, but I think what made it seem like a long shot

7/11/18 9:57am

I'm trying to recall the timeline now...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:03am

Possible. As you said, it's been a while and my timeline could be fuzzy.

7/11/18 10:13am

But could USC, Oregon, or UCLA live with that imbalance?

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:14am

Obviously not as the option was never on the table.

7/11/18 10:20am

There were a few problems with a P16. P10 presidents didn't want Ok St, TTech,

Scratch

7/11/18 10:16am

To get OU and UT you take whoever you need to.

7/11/18 10:26am

This NYT article seems to support that scenario.

Everyman

7/11/18 11:35am

The takeaway from this piece is how far apart the PAC and UT were

jrj84105

7/11/18 11:07am

They were never getting OU without OSU.

mudpupper

7/11/18 9:50am

And then the PAC declined the pair when they applied to join.

jrj84105

7/11/18 11:09am

A picture is worth a thousand words. Or just 2.

Ragnar Danneskjold

7/11/18 9:38am

So let me get this straight, not only does Utah help Colorado get in, but they

7/11/18 9:39am

Actively work to keep BYU out? Huh? Where do you see that?

Scratch

7/11/18 9:54am

According to the article, and in Hill‘s own words, he was excited to keep the

7/11/18 10:32am

Seriously? There was no way BYU was getting in no matter what; they would never

Scratch

7/11/18 10:41am

There's that justification I was talking about. Rather than believe the simplest

7/11/18 10:54am

The P10 possibly taking 2 Utah teams is the most likely explanation? Plus,

Scratch

7/11/18 11:04am

Right, because the PAC never takes more than one team from a state.

7/11/18 11:22am

You understand that things had changed since the last time the P10 had expanded

Scratch

7/11/18 11:29am

Okay, I'll agree that was a bad argument. I hadn't actually seen that Fehlberg

7/11/18 11:39am

Hill recognized that it was unlikely, but with something like this you don't

Scratch

7/11/18 11:42am

What is the Feldberg quote?

OPINIONS

7/11/18 11:15am

Ask the Ute fans, they've been talking about it above. Must have been a doozy

7/11/18 11:19am

RE: What is the Feldberg quote?

Scratch

7/11/18 11:22am

In your own words, "Fehlberg suggested Utah." Honest answer: do you think Hill

7/11/18 11:26am

Probably not. Hill knew what was the most likely approach to get Utah in. It

Scratch

7/11/18 11:31am

Fair enough; I'm okay with that. But Ute fans could at least drop the argument

7/11/18 11:32am

I have no reason to doubt what Fehlberg said.

Scratch

7/11/18 11:44am

I think we're going in circles now

7/11/18 11:45am

Sorry, I thought I was clear. I have no reason to think Hill mentioned BYU to

Scratch

7/11/18 11:54am

My bad

7/11/18 11:55am

Hill was already in cahoots with Colorado before he ever met with Scott.

OPINIONS

7/11/18 12:01pm

Hill was watching out for Utah and maximizing their chance of getting in.

OPINIONS

7/11/18 11:12am

Chris Hill is so smart

Doc Buff

7/11/18 4:48pm

lol. The two situations aren't even close to the same.

couldge

7/11/18 6:01pm

There wasn't any bad PR. The only people riled up were BYU fans. I thought

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 12:19pm

There was plenty of bad PR. I guess you're too blind to see it.

couldge

7/12/18 12:38pm

A mailbag piece, a local article from a guy that rarely writes, and an

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 12:57pm

Some national writers mentioned it...

Tokolosh

7/12/18 1:01pm

Ok you said NO BAD PR

couldge

7/12/18 3:45pm

To answer your question...

lilpenny

7/11/18 1:34pm

BYU was never mentioned in the article. Sunday play was.

Doc Buff

7/11/18 4:43pm

Sad that BYU was never considered when it was better than Utah in every way. Except the research university area.

Baron

7/11/18 9:44am

But BYU was not better in every way. BYU is a fine school and has a strong...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:53am

What reasons? That they have better than BYU?

Baron

7/11/18 9:55am

And here it is straight from Scott:

Baron

7/11/18 9:58am

BYU does not add more TV dollars. Those contracts were market based...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:11am

BYU would add more in each market. You can't say that it would have played no role. You know that BYU gets more

Baron

7/11/18 10:12am

But it was not eyeball based, it was market based.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:16am

Lol, BYU's athletic history was not superior. The more recent history, which

BigBrotherUte

7/11/18 11:55am

Recent football success, academic rankings in many disciplines, greater emphasis

Tokolosh

7/11/18 9:58am

Recent Football sucess played no role. Academic rankings? BYU is a better undergrad institution and

Baron

7/11/18 10:01am

Athletic success did play a role. Same Scott quote you posted above...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:13am

History of athletic achievement and that has BYU ahead.

Baron

7/11/18 10:17am

The 70s-80s were kind to BYU. But the separation between the schools

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:20am

How do you figure? Utah had more recent success, and also has more long-term

Scratch

7/11/18 10:20am

Nope. I am talking all sports more than just football, which was a

Baron

7/11/18 10:24am

Football drives the bus.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:43am

Yewtah's brand had a strong enough flame that it was reasonable for the P10...

7/11/18 10:05am

Saying that BYU is better in every way is an overstatement. However,

Lynk

7/11/18 10:00am

There are many Utah departments far better than at BYU and it is not even close

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:18am

You're right. BYU fans insist on quoting hard number metrics when making their point. So annoying.

kccougar

7/11/18 10:45am

No, they focus on the one or two hard numbers that benefit them...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:55am

Tell us again why you started this thread?

kccougar

7/11/18 11:01am

Because there is some interest in the Utes and/or how realignment went down

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:10am

Lololol wut

immacougar

7/11/18 10:46am

And there are many BYU departments that are far better than U departments and it

Lynk

7/11/18 10:47am

RE: And there are many BYU departments that are far better than U departments

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:57am

Like I said, the U has some fine programs, and there are some programs

Lynk

7/11/18 11:42am

Not trying to be hostile or offended...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:54am

You and I agree.

Lynk

7/11/18 12:03pm

Not buying it. Utah has a few solid programs, but on the whole BYU is stronger

unctoothman

7/11/18 11:26am

<< Deleted >>

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:53am

If the reason for P10 expansion was money, BYU was a far better fit.

mudpupper

7/11/18 10:00am

Exactly, if BYU wasn't a religious school and a research institute, it would be in over Utah. No questions asked.

Baron

7/11/18 10:06am

TL;DR version

Gustav

7/11/18 9:55am

Here's the history:

Left Shark Coug

7/11/18 10:03am

This is what BYU should have said to the BIG XII:

sanitarium

7/11/18 10:04am

Unfortunately that door is now closed

TNT

7/11/18 10:31am

I see why the article is getting thumbs downs here, but that was good journalism

OPINIONS

7/11/18 10:06am

Utah or Kansas would be if ATM went to the SEC.

displacedute

7/11/18 10:13am

<< Deleted >>

Everyman

7/11/18 5:50pm

What I gleamed from it

Twin Roots

7/11/18 10:08am

*gleaned

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:24am

Because that matters

Twin Roots

7/11/18 10:36am

It does. Unless you were telling us the info made you resemble Edward Cullen.

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:56am

This line is great:

Cougarclaw

7/11/18 10:08am

If B School and Accounting were all that mattered you might have something

Tokolosh

7/11/18 10:25am

There are lots of other departments that are excellent departments beyond the B

Lynk

7/11/18 11:22am

Yes, lots of departments to compare...

Tokolosh

7/11/18 11:34am

Agreed, I do not think it was illogical for the U to be included.

Lynk

7/11/18 11:56am

BYU's a fine school but your blue goggles are on too tight. Keep in mind that

BigBrotherUte

7/12/18 1:24pm

My uneducated opinion

Choke

7/11/18 10:10am

So Hill and Young spent years laying the groundwork

CallingDingo

7/11/18 10:11am

Prop 8 would have killed any groundwork laid.

7/11/18 11:34am

This line from Hill stands out to me:

HBCoug

7/11/18 10:20am

Sadly, for far too many BYU fans, the lack of self awareness is terminal.

7/11/18 11:06am

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