Whether it's selective punishment or enforcement...

Jul 12, 2018
12:58:20pm

tmurphey44 Walk-on

It's wrong. BYU (and the church in general) should care more about representing forgiveness and mercy, than it does about protecting norms and keeping face. At least that's what I think Christ would do.

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tmurphey44

Bio page: tmurphey44
Joined: Aug 10, 2010
Last login: Apr 18, 2024
Total posts: 301 (1 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

BYU Football and the Honor Code Office - For what it is worth.

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 1:21pm

I would be curious to see where the percentages of violations lie. Anyone have a guess on

Zedhead

7/11/18 1:29pm

beards

Idahofallsblue

7/11/18 1:49pm

Not even close! X - Family feud. Good guess.

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 1:52pm

From my friend it is the most common things we would think: Drinking, drugs, and

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 1:51pm

Which is why we have Rambo hiding in the bushes with a camera.

panguitch

7/11/18 6:01pm

Did you mean the Salt Lake Tribune?

WJCougar

7/12/18 3:39pm

This does not make sense.

tmurphey44

7/11/18 9:30pm

I didn't not say that they only punish the kids when things are public. Way to

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 11:21pm

That's just reality tho. It's not wrong. Actions sometimes have far reaching

MormonThug

7/12/18 6:55am

It's not selective enforcement, it's selective punishment. The church does the exact same thing with

Radioactive Coug

7/12/18 10:24am

Whether it's selective punishment or enforcement...

tmurphey44

7/12/18 12:58pm

Obviously it appears you have no idea. The Church is not at all about saving

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/12/18 1:59pm

Not true the Church and BYU are extremly imgage conscious

kahuna

7/12/18 2:18pm

Radio, it is not selective punishment, having sat on many councils. The

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/12/18 1:08pm

As have I and I stand by my wording, unless you are talking about the BYU side.

Radioactive Coug

7/12/18 2:19pm

whoa, there's a leap

ArchbishopMitty

7/12/18 3:16pm

You're wrong - that's not the definition of hypocrisy. The definition is

MajorPain

7/12/18 3:24pm

So many people throw that word around when it doesn't apply...

ArchbishopMitty

7/12/18 6:03pm

So let's use your definition here:

tmurphey44

7/13/18 7:45am

LOL, that's like saying, since you believe killing people is wrong, you are a hypocrite if

Radioactive Coug

7/13/18 8:05am

That's a good point.

tmurphey44

7/13/18 10:29am

That's not at all what I was saying. While it may be true that protecting my family is more important than not

Radioactive Coug

7/13/18 12:35pm

Your argument is completely theoretically

tmurphey44

7/15/18 7:03am

So, would you be OK if it was a mandatory 1 year pregnant or not?

Radioactive Coug

7/16/18 2:20pm

Yes. It wouldn't be how I personally

tmurphey44

7/18/18 7:17am

Well of course they wouldn't say anything negative about their own office.

Lip Gallagher

7/11/18 1:54pm

The HC office is not trying to protect itself and does all that it can to help

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 11:24pm

His point is that your friend is drinking his own Koolaid. Of course he isn't

Yunit

7/12/18 8:26am

Does the honor code only apply when on campus/enrolled?

stealth

7/11/18 1:58pm

I think it applies to all students while enrolled @ BYU, not sure off campus?

GlasairCoug

7/11/18 2:09pm

Definitely applies off campus too

Odysseus

7/11/18 2:18pm

And this is a major fault and shortcoming.

Archaea

7/12/18 10:46am

Does this change if they start paying players and players become employees?

SUAVO

7/12/18 11:16am

Not sure, but not automatically. I know

Archaea

7/12/18 1:31pm

They are now expected to follow the HC 24/7 wherever they are. My wife is

Monomachos

7/12/18 2:37pm

Dumb rule.

Archaea

7/12/18 5:51pm

There is more and it has been discussed here many times. BYU is only hiring

Monomachos

7/12/18 7:21pm

Every student needs to fill out the 'Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement'

TheLost

7/11/18 2:28pm

That's all beside the point, IMO. The Honor Code Office needs to go.

SoCalCoug

7/11/18 2:25pm

Honest question: how would this work with kids who aren’t church members?

Croweater

7/12/18 6:15am

Same way it currently works. With their ecclesiastical leader. They have to

Yunit

7/12/18 8:27am

That puts way too much, and the wrong responsibilities on bishops

Big Papi

7/12/18 8:35am

Why does it need to go? The ecclesiastical endorsement is a condition of

vaquero

7/12/18 9:07am

Doesn't the ecclesiastical endorsement have to be renewed every year though?

Yunit

7/13/18 7:19am

Wow, what's with the liberals newfound interest in dismantling agencies/offices?

Iman23

7/12/18 12:42pm

As long as BYU is Church owned and subsidized,

semolinaPilchard

7/11/18 2:39pm

The ecclesiastical endorsement already sets it apart as a church school.

SoCalCoug

7/11/18 2:44pm

Inconsistently implemented. It leaves authority to individuals off campus

WhiteKnight

7/11/18 2:46pm

Ecclesiastical leaders for the church that owns the University.

SoCalCoug

7/11/18 3:00pm

I have a hard time believing you would be happy with the results when Bishops

Lance71

7/11/18 6:59pm

God would smite them down in a flash if they did that

Lip Gallagher

7/11/18 7:09pm

In Provo?

AntiSNOT

7/12/18 7:02am

An ecclesiastical leader has no authority to make decision about a students

TheLoneCougar

7/12/18 8:01am

Do you believe the university has standing to assess a student's moral standing?

SoCalCoug

7/12/18 12:19pm

Probably depends on the situation. But bottom line:

TheLoneCougar

7/12/18 12:35pm

Bishops are Judges in Israel. Let them judge.

SoCalCoug

7/12/18 12:47pm

The are spiritual judges. A person's education and schooling should not be part

TheLoneCougar

7/13/18 7:28am

But the students' adherence to church moral principles and commandments should

SoCalCoug

7/13/18 11:56am

I'm not sure the school is making such a judgement

dratax

7/13/18 12:14pm

Exactly my point. Bishops are judges in Israel over the spiritual lives of their

TheLoneCougar

7/13/18 12:24pm

On the other hand

dratax

7/13/18 3:33pm

Bad Idea, the results would vary drastically and even more people would be

Ghost

7/12/18 9:41am

Who is entitled to the spirit of discernment to determine whether a person is

SoCalCoug

7/12/18 12:22pm

Trust Bishops with the decision to determine eligibility? That's insane.

Lance71

7/12/18 5:28pm

As opposed to a bunch people in the HCO?

Archaea

7/12/18 5:52pm

A bunch of people is totally inaccurate. There is a small committee in charge.

Lance71

7/12/18 9:40pm

See answer below.

Archaea

7/15/18 6:19pm

"Those guys" who are ordained as judges in Israel, with the authority to

SoCalCoug

7/13/18 11:57am

Some important points to consider:

GlasairCoug

7/11/18 3:47pm

regarding governing themselves

dratax

7/11/18 4:34pm

Were they then kicked out of school?

FanofBYU

7/12/18 5:16pm

That doesn’t explain RMs like Ula

Coogar2

7/11/18 6:43pm

Players dig their own hole.. Stop blaming the HC

TheLost

7/11/18 7:06pm

Everything you said here is exactly right. Joe, Ula, and Francis were given

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/11/18 11:27pm

I agree

Coogar2

7/12/18 7:05am

It explains it all. Frequency, attitude, degree of penitence. He didn't

PhilPete

7/12/18 9:22am

I was brief. The position that a play enters BYU as a HS stud not

Coogar2

7/12/18 11:03am

Agee 187%

PhilPete

7/12/18 1:59pm

Those questions don't seem to line up with Brandon Davies situation.

Ned Schneebly

7/12/18 8:53am

How widespread is it, or how many people know about it?

Coug

7/12/18 9:15am

The point is that BYU tries to handle everything through BYU. If a student has

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/12/18 2:04pm

It's a factor in the equation, not the deciding factor, but a factor.

MormonThug

7/12/18 10:10pm

The primary reason why CB hates on the HC office is because of sports.

Machiavelli

7/12/18 9:25am

You say that like it's a bad thing. 🙂

Lip Gallagher

7/12/18 9:41am

I have close contacts who were kicked out of BYU by the HC office who were not

maxpowers

7/12/18 10:07am

That's like saying you hate the police because they gave your friend a ticket

Machiavelli

7/12/18 10:26am

You'd be crazy to think they haven't ever made some poor decisions.

Lip Gallagher

7/12/18 10:31am

Yeah of course they've made some bad decisions.

Machiavelli

7/12/18 11:46am

Student or Athlete... You sign the Honor Code contract before you attend.

TheLost

7/12/18 10:35am

Consequences are extremely subjective. Largely based on the bishop. Same mistake

maxpowers

7/12/18 10:45am

I 100% agree... but that issue is larger than just BYU

TheLost

7/12/18 10:54am

As a parent of two BYU students, this is how the HC seems to work...

TheLost

7/12/18 10:52am

I'd guess a good chunk of the time they might feel guilty

JuicyJam

7/12/18 12:32pm

Actually the HC office has too many jerks irrespective of sports.

Coogar2

7/12/18 11:03am

I dont know the HC Office employees personally

Machiavelli

7/12/18 11:50am

People wouldn't like it even if it didn't effect sports at all.

JuicyJam

7/12/18 12:28pm

Then they should probably not attend BYU.

Machiavelli

7/12/18 1:25pm

There are too many horror stories about how the HCO has delt with people.

JuicyJam

7/12/18 1:40pm

I was at BYU for 4 years (fairly recently) and no one within my social circle

Machiavelli

7/12/18 8:39pm

Cool. I and lots of other people did.

JuicyJam

7/12/18 9:30pm

Not much!

dodgersjazzcougs

7/12/18 10:43am

The HCO should not exist for social guideline violations, and this sentence

Archaea

7/12/18 10:45am

What bothers me about that sentence is:

dratax

7/12/18 10:52am

$$$

TheLost

7/12/18 11:07am

You took my post seriously? I need to be more over the top in the future

dratax

7/12/18 12:03pm

Irony is tricky on CB 🙂

TheLost

7/12/18 12:45pm

Right, but when summer violations cause them to lose ecclesiastical endorsement

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/12/18 2:06pm

If you are a non-member, I doubt you're going to lose your ecclesiastical

Archaea

7/12/18 5:50pm

Did you know that as a non-member you still need to have an endorsement?

BYU I Bleed Blue

7/12/18 9:15pm

That's super interesting that someone working at the HC office feels that way

fatcracker

7/12/18 12:06pm

Good summary. BYU does what it can to help students/athletes, but sometimes

ArchbishopMitty

7/12/18 3:11pm

So tired of all the honor code whining

MajorPain

7/12/18 3:33pm

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