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Jan 25, 2021
1:38:15pm
SoBlueitHurts Walk-on
Before we get to examples let's ask about your stance.
The part we are talking about is the iso ball vs offenses like pick 'n' roll or triangle. I did not argue your other points as I largely agree with the "flooping", refs, lack of defense, and "darlings".
The very man whose quote you are defending, though, made a living by playing iso ball down low despite a supposed triangle offense that was in place. When the points were needed they dumped it to him and he went iso or his teammates (for his 'ships) would go iso on the outside. Shaq, Kobe, or D Wade were not known for their defense or sharing the ball. Shaq did not even do much pick'n'roll until he played with the Suns. All three shot lots of free throws. Do they deserve this respect you speak of? Was it figure skating then?
MJ (GOAT) played plenty of iso and got star treatment? Is he a skater or a ball player?
In short, the stars are stars in part because they have been able to beat someone one-on one and their teams kept doing it. The iso ball/lack of offense is VERY prominent in NBA history. Some of the guys you probably think were great got so with iso ball and star treatment, so who exactly is deserving of respect for playing basketball?
Iso ball is becoming less common as teams that do not have "darlings" learn to "chuck threes" as you call it. That is where you make it sound like church ball. In reality, teams are using analytics, not just to get the right players, but to put them in efficient situations. It is resulting in more sophisticated offensive concepts and schemes. It is now the rule, not the exception, and if you can't see that then I am not sure the analysis will help (especially in light of your refusal to even listen to the quote for your other dispute)

First, as mentioned above, two of your stars share a floor now. Durant already fit into the system I have described for a couple years and can create his shot but has lived for much of his NBA career with someone else having the ball a lot.
Anyway, the playoff teams as of now (really don't want to do a league-wide analysis, but the landscape can always change) are listed below:
Sixers: Best style comparison might be a VERY poor man's version of Magic and Kareem, Point Guard/Forward who is oversized and not a huge outside threat, big man who is not just a bulldozer, (again, want to iterate that Simmons and Embiid are way less skilled, but the comparison is more similar than a Shaq and Kobe type). I would hope that Magic and Kareem can merit your respect. I also hope you can see that the sixers don't fit your assertions above about offense.
Bucks: In spite of Giannis' star power these guys spread it around a bit with Jrue (another iso type) and Middleton (poor man's Scottie Pippen). They shoot threes but not a ton. (Side note, what's worse the iso ball or the three chucking?)
Celtics: Lot of youthful stars, but due to coach they spread it around.
Pacers: Sabonis' build is reminiscent of a bulldozer, but his passing game is too good. I would hardly call them an iso team.
Nets: Prim donnas, point ceded. No real offense, just stars playing iso. Durant could play in an offense and be amazing but is not sure what he wants. Harden is a good shooter but awful for the sport. Irving is skilled but too much like Harden and LeBron.
Cavs: Sexton seems like a hero-ball type, Kobe wannabe, but they also have Drummond, who is one of the most Shaq-esque there is. Back to my point about what is deserving of respect because they are a little like throwbacks in that regard.
Hawks: Trae is a poor-man's Steph. Lots of threes, lots of Capela dumps, lots of passing. Some iso, but lots of picks and motion.
Knicks: Randle resurgence. Maybe he is iso, but like a lesser Sabonis he sure gets lots of assists for a big guy.

Clippers: Iso and star power, but not as good of shooters and much better defenders. Despite star power are not as reliant on refs. Not the best at the three-ball. Tough guys
Lakers: The one thing I respect about LeBron is his passing. Do not like the rest. on a side note, ne always has a co-star that has been or could be MVP. Currently that is a big man (hearkening back to the Shaq/Kobe talk) so there is more p'n'r than other times in his career. Not so many three-point guys.
Jazz: Mitchell could be an iso guy, but with Conley it gets more complex. Add Bogdanovic and I do nnot see how they fit the mold you described. (As someone who does not like the Jazz, I really think highly of those three).
Blazers: They really like the P'n'R. Based on what you said earlier that means they are not part of the iso group (though I lean a little that way).
Nuggets: I feel like Porter and Murray are iso guys, but we know that this is Jokic's team and he is better than Sabonis. Should be MVP. Labeling them iso is insulting.
Grizzlies: Morant's game reminds me of a smaller LeBron. Maybe some iso, but that might be selling the role players short as they have quite a team mentality (management must be good at instilling it because the pieces change but the mentality keeps going).
Suns: Booker is maybe a better overall creator than Mitchell, but in a worse organization. Add in CP3 and Ayton and I see smiliarities, but bad management leaves them with inferior role players. Mitchell might be better because he seems hungrier than Booker.
Spurs: I definitely would not call them iso. I do not like Pop, but he does good at getting his stars the ball while still being in the offense.

Rest, less iso as you go down due to lack of star power (excepting the awful pairing of Beal and Westbrook, and a couple other situations).

Theme: The iso you list as not being worthy of respect has always been around, always will be, same for "darlings". In general, those things are less than the past because of the designed offenses. It's almost as if you list two opposing things and lump them together. Unfortunately the best are rewarded for both so they are top-heavy in the iso and "darlings".
Yes, threes have gone up, but the offenses designed to get them are more sophisticated. It is league-wide as the NBA has experimented with what is seen on the lower levels of basketball (almost like spread taking over and even NFL adopting some of it). Also, lots of degrees between iso and team play where most teams fit.

Finally, I highly doubt I will respond again because I just do not see what you are and it does not seem like I am making headway with you, but I will likely read your answer because I really want to know the answer to a couple questions: How do you lump iso ball and three chucking as in many cases they oppose one another? What era/players are respectable? Did they not get the "darling treatment?"
SoBlueitHurts
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SoBlueitHurts
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