Which is why the laws of our current system (at least in Utah) have changed in the past 2 years. It's much better now,

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Jan 21, 2022
9:28:40am

Bert609 Intervention Needed

Which is why the laws of our current system (at least in Utah) have changed in the past 2 years. It's much better now,

I have a reservation on an Ineos Grenadier. 2 years ago, I would have been forced to pick it up in Nevada or California because of the strict Utah dealership laws created to from a pseudo-monopoly, or at the least a "gentleman's club of elites" that could game the system.

I'm glad Tesla pushed reforms through the Utah legislature.

So it "is the system we have", but that doesn't make it a good one.

Hopefully Ineos goes through the "direct to consumer" model, or I'm going to have to deal with the $10-20k "market adjustment" on every Utah vehicle these days, just cuz.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jan 21, 2022 at 9:28:40am

Message modified by Bert609 on Jan 21, 2022 at 9:29:44am

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Bert609

Bio page: Bert609
Joined: Oct 25, 2004
Last login: Apr 18, 2024
Total posts: 55,272 (25,341 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Car dealerships are crooks. This topic reminded me of a post I made a few years ago:

Ragnar Danneskjold $4,000,000 never forget

1/21/22 8:54am

The worst is they sell it as "you can just roll it into your payment"

crack

1/21/22 8:58am

For real - edge guards: pay more to have your Civic Type R look worse

COUGND

1/21/22 8:58am

Everything on there is a head-scratcher.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 8:59am

"Lo-Jack" is a huge neon sign that translates into auto-speak as "Do Not Buy From Here."

Bert609

1/21/22 9:00am

I was looking at car that had onStar. The dealer also installed their own GPS thingy. I asked what their package did

Beest

1/21/22 10:45am

Interesting that so many of those ad-ons are all 395.00…

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:03am

Cargo net installed for $395? I’d love to have that hourly rate.

ponys

1/21/22 9:33am

Believe me, the guys putting it in aren't getting that money.

John Doe

1/21/22 9:51am

Is this where the Tesla model departs from the dealership model?

MarylandFan

1/21/22 9:07am

Yes when you visit their “dealership” and even test drive the employees there

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:14am

Wait a minute, when you visit Tesla, the employees actually know the features? That's a novel concept.

Bert609

1/21/22 9:20am

Haha, yes! That is a funny and ironic thing.

MarylandFan

1/21/22 9:25am

We can’t have caveat emptor and expect them to be nice.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:09am

But it isn't free market anymore. Laws make it difficult or impossible to sell vehicles without going through a dealer.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:12am

And laws are in place to prevent others from owning a dealership. It's a pseudo-controlled monopoly.

Bert609

1/21/22 9:17am

Which really isn’t what the OP is complaining about

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:27am

They couldn’t in Utah for years because the dealers tried to block them

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:18am

Two different problems.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:25am

Two inter-related problems in this case.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:27am

Which is why the laws of our current system (at least in Utah) have changed in the past 2 years. It's much better now,

Bert609

1/21/22 9:28am

I agree. However, it isn’t lack of a free market. This is exactly how the free

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:30am

I'm not arguing the establishment of prices. I'm arguing the establishment of dealers. In Utah, before Tesla, it

Bert609

1/21/22 9:39am

Look if you wanna have a conversation about car dealership laws go ahead.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:42am

It has everything to do with it. Limit competition, limit opportunities to avoid the mark up gimmicks.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:48am

You assume that if you just had more dealerships this wouldn’t happen.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:52am

When you can cross state lines and instantly get $5-10k+ off your quote, you have a Utah problem. Especially since

Bert609

1/21/22 9:53am

If that is the case that means I could have gotten my GMC AT4 for $26k off MSRP if I went to another state.

LyleLanley

1/21/22 10:08am

You are a much better negotiator than me. This past year was enough for me to throw in the towel on the whole thing.

Bert609

1/21/22 10:59am

Last vehicle I purchased was found on the internet. I flew to Portland to buy and drive home. I saved $5k+ over local

SierraCoug

1/21/22 10:10am

I assume that if I have more dealers I'd have a better chance of finding one not engaging in the shenanigans.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:58am

Long way to say, "you're right, it isn't a free market, government screws up

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:29am

Free market means I get to charge two people wildly different prices if I can

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:32am

A free market also means that I could see a person overcharging for their good or service and decide to compete...

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:36am

There are plenty of car dealerships competing

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:37am

Yes, there is competition within this closed system. Why can't I build the Honda I want using the online configurator?

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:42am

Honda doesn’t want to sell you cars direct. You don’t like that-OK

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:51am

Honda does want to sell direct. Now that the tools exist to make that happen the OEMs do want to change it.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 10:01am

The issue is that it's regulated. It's not a free market. If I want to buy directly from the manufacture I can't. A

HarlemCoug

1/21/22 9:36am

Someone should have a car negotiating service where they’re compensated

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:37am

This actually exists.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:42am

How can you be so wrong? Free market means anyone can sell in the market. No

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:38am

But the part that was being complained about has nothing to do with restrictions

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:40am

The whole point of the post was that manufacturer's are prohibited from selling

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:47am

No the point was they charge $400 for the same wheel locks they charge $50 for

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:53am

Because they've captured government regulation and excluded their competition.

jvquarterback

1/21/22 10:30am

Free market means I can walk out the door and go elsewhere if I don’t like what

califcougar

1/21/22 9:41am

There is plenty of rivalry and competition for car sales.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:55am

3 of 7 Honda dealerships in Utah are Ken Garff. Two are Larry Miller but they

califcougar

1/21/22 10:05am

You don't even have to buy in Utah. Buy somewhere else, the market is national

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 11:05am

You can’t buy a new Honda at a non-Honda dealership and Garff and Miller own

califcougar

1/21/22 11:37am

Thanks for pointing out (again) there isn't a free market in Utah.

jvquarterback

1/21/22 11:46am

I'm sure many elderly people have bought cars complete unaware of the 1,000% markup. That's why I consider them crooks.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:16am

I am sure that’s true. But that’s the system we have. Willing seller, willing

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:28am

Talking advantage of uninformed buyers because they can and nothing to stop them

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:32am

Yeah, if your grandma went to jiffy lube and they told her an oil change was $900, and she went along with it, I bet you

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:38am

Dishonest yes; crooks no

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:54am

It's the same thing.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:59am

When you enter the dealership you are challenging practiced warriors to battle.

Ripliancum

1/21/22 9:20am

I can understand things that are wired into the car. the alarm, low jack etc....

crimedog

1/21/22 9:32am

On the Low-Jack, they'll give you a spiel about how they install it on all their vehicles for "insurance" when they get

Bert609

1/21/22 10:05am

here's my story on dealers trying to slip in costly add ons without me knowing about it

byujag

1/21/22 9:37am

They tried that with the vin-etching thing with me. Had an agreed-upon OTD price, and when the car finally arrived they

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:41am

This is how you Alpha.

Q-grr

1/21/22 11:56am

I didn't even know wheel locks were a thing until I had to force them off my own

ochobeeguy

1/21/22 9:53am

How can you tell when a car salesman is lying?

85fan

1/21/22 10:37am

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