More about talent development opportunities, which can lead to wins

May 26, 2022
10:42:46am

Big Daddy D All-American

I was considering enrolling my son at Lone Peak during their basketball hay day. I knew he would get top shelf development with Quincy Lewis in his program.

We ultimately decided to stay at the school closer to us for several reasons, not the least of which was he was already entrenched in our community and I worried about how he would be treated by peers he was taking play time away from.

Again, player development and environment of excellence was the draw, much more than just winning titles.

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Big Daddy D

Bio page: Big Daddy D
Joined: Jul 3, 2003
Last login: Apr 24, 2024
Total posts: 39,323 (3,707 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

The Utah County Rules of open enrollment so kids can move to other schools to

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:32am

Sometimes it's not about just winning a championship but to actually get

ManicBlue

5/25/22 12:48am

It is about winning. Don’t fool yourself. And equating academics with auxiliary

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:12am

Transferring schools does not guarantee winning anything. You can believe what you want but

ManicBlue

5/25/22 1:31am

LOL.. come on man.. it's all about winning

byukarl

5/25/22 9:21am

How many teams win championships each year? ONE.

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:22am

AF wins XC and Track all the time taking PG kids

byukarl

5/25/22 11:30am

What exactly is your point?

ManicBlue

5/25/22 11:38am

I added some additional info in my previous reply

byukarl

5/25/22 11:41am

RE: I added some additional info in my previous reply

ManicBlue

5/25/22 11:51am

He said championships but others are saying winning. People transfer to win and

ColonelMustard

5/25/22 3:27pm

I don't have a problem with kids trying to put themselves in the best situation

ManicBlue

5/25/22 4:01pm

It’s actually a lot more about recruiting than winning. Obviously

cougfanz

5/25/22 6:15am

I agree on recruiting. Winning helps but so does getting playing time early.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:20am

I disagree with this theory. In 2022 if a kid has the talent and goes to

Nagurski

5/25/22 10:07am

A lot of that also takes money which not every parent can afford.

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:23am

True, it also depends on the sport. We did not and have not done a lot of

Nagurski

5/25/22 1:56pm

What position did your son play? There's some positions where this can hold

fattycoug

5/25/22 11:15am

Agree.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 11:59am

Fair point, but camps will remove that barrier quickly.

Nagurski

5/25/22 1:54pm

they can but if you, ultimately, don't have film it makes it harder. Sure, the

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:06pm

Sometimes.

cougfanz

5/25/22 11:20am

Yeah.. they run the times.. show up in camp.. exactly

byukarl

5/25/22 11:49am

More about talent development opportunities, which can lead to wins

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:42am

It's too bad that all schools don't put the same emphasis on academics

Kid_A

5/25/22 7:09am

It’s hard to tell what the emphasis on academics is unless you have a kid on the

MVPlayer

5/25/22 8:37am

It’s not a county thing, it’s state law. It happens everywhere. And the biggest

Scratch

5/25/22 12:56am

Using that logic couldn't you also say you are giving another kid an opportunity

SUAVO

5/25/22 6:09am

The rules aren’t exclusive to top athletes.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:18am

This is ultimately why we decided not to enroll at a school farther from us.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:44am

The UHSAA has zero say in those kinds of things

pastyute

5/25/22 5:43am

One point missed. Playing time.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:12am

My kids go to a school were it is almost impossible to get in, and the academics are off the charts, so everybody wants

doctorcoug

5/25/22 6:22am

Where is this? Utah?

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:27am

what academic school in Utah County is off the charts and everyone wants to go

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:31am

I don't know the varsity level teams, but I know the underclass well. AF is stacked, they cut kids that would be stars

doctorcoug

5/25/22 6:15am

Yep.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:23am

Davis County is also open enrollment, no different from the rest of Utah

palangi

5/25/22 6:55am

It’s not that they don’t allow it, but the culture here isn’t transfer

The Old Y

5/25/22 8:18am

If it is allowed and Davis just doesn't do it, your entire premise crumbles

reddead

5/25/22 9:14am

Ha. Sounds like your kid transferred to win. Good luck!

The Old Y

5/25/22 9:43am

I'm too young for that.. But I went to HS in that area, so I'm admittedly biased

reddead

5/25/22 9:48am

your post "the Utah county rules for open enrollment". reddead is correct, your

palangi

5/25/22 9:48am

It's interesting that none of the Utah County Dad defenders on here aren't

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:34am

You're missing the point. Vs Davis, many of the UT Co schools are better

reddead

5/25/22 10:48am

No. Your point isn't a good one or accurate. There are 50+ 5A/6A teams and

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:06am

You're claiming that Davis Co kids are the loyalist kids in the country. It's

palangi

5/25/22 11:24am

Well, you've jumped the shark now. See you around!

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:36am

This is silly; you're taking this way too personal

reddead

5/25/22 11:54am

It's a great point. Dominant high schools will always be in locations

cougfanz

5/25/22 12:07pm

I mean, you've literally spent the last hour trying to talk about my OP, but yea

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:10pm

Why would anyone deny it's happening when it clearly is?

fattycoug

5/25/22 10:54am

Transfers happen, it's just not limited to Utah county. It's not limited to UT

palangi

5/25/22 11:16am

You: kids in Utah county are transferring to winning teams because

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:33am

Dude your OP was about Utah county rules for open enrollment needing to change

palangi

5/25/22 11:53am

Me: the kids in Davis county don't do it. And the parents/admin/UHSAA who

The Old Y

5/25/22 11:55am

except kids in Davis county do do it. (though, most of the ones I know

fattycoug

5/25/22 1:51pm

That only bolsters my point. UHSAA should care that equitability is leaving

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:37pm

South SL and Northern UT County is different, so you're wrong there. The culture

palangi

5/25/22 9:42am

yep. The four or five best football teams the last years have been LP, CC, AF,

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:59am

I know personally talking to PG XC coach that Baseball team benefits

byukarl

5/25/22 11:50am

of course they are recruiting. My point being is The Old Y thinks Utah

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:58am

Don’t you mean Region 4?

Dr. 91coug

5/25/22 2:40pm

PG Vikings youth baseball. A recruiting pipeline

doctorcoug

5/25/22 12:40pm

See: Timpview Baseball

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:00am

Orem has a very competitive and organized youth baseball league. Provo has

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:04am

Yeah baseball kids don't move or transfer to Timpview,they've sucked for many yr

palangi

5/25/22 10:09am

Everything is RMSB now anyways. You got kids in Weber county going to play comp

The Old Y

5/25/22 10:23am

Orem Youth league starts at 6 and then the good kids start to get picked off for

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:30am

I agree, except it's not the state, it's the country. Youth sports have jumped

palangi

5/25/22 10:46am

and everything is not RMSB these days. RMSB is still big in Northern Utah but

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:36am

Wasatch Baseball has also gotten really big in the midweek scene.

Scratch

5/25/22 11:41am

Yep, wasatch baseball, SLCC 14u league, out of state tournaments, and

BYUheaven

5/25/22 11:44am

Then how come Provo high fields a decent team?

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:23am

The 7-19 last in region Provo hs baseball team?

palangi

5/25/22 10:30am

But they aren't Timpview bad. Provo is competitive. Timpview sees the other team's JV squad.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:43am

They are decent when the coach has a kid in the program. I think he has one in a

BYUheaven

5/25/22 10:36am

Coaching. Better history which keeps athletes in the pipeline.. outside

cougfanz

5/25/22 11:29am

I don't get your playing time/super team argument. Can't have it both ways. To

palangi

5/25/22 10:27am

"Playing Time" is a reference to the excuse parents give to play on a superteam.

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:31pm

you're simply being too broad with your strokes. There's lots of different

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:37pm

Nonsense. That kid should have been loyal to corner canyon and road the bench

BYUheaven

5/25/22 2:43pm

you can't even get to Snow that way, though

fattycoug

5/25/22 2:46pm

Cute. But he didn't get offered to Snow College if he didn't start as a Junior.

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:47pm

I accept your criticism. But my point was my stroke. And there are more than a

The Old Y

5/25/22 2:44pm

It absolutely is happening but if oyu have open enrollment for academics I'm not

fattycoug

5/25/22 3:00pm

Thanks for admitting it. As a parent, how do you not choose the best route for

The Old Y

5/26/22 10:56am

No it’s because Utah County people are living right on and off the field.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 10:47am

One example of how dumb open enrollment is

Medute

5/25/22 6:23am

State rules control transferring. UHSAA is king here. Davis doesn't play by

Iron Coug

5/25/22 6:28am

Interesting. Can individuals donate to pay coaches more?

Cougstreak

5/25/22 6:33am

As a coach in Alpine where can I get this significantly more you speak of?

Adwight

5/25/22 6:50am

I have very direct knowledge of coaches pay and this man speaks the truth. Pay for coaches is for nada. For the love of

doctorcoug

5/25/22 7:11am

You get it through your camps. Can boost your income with camps depending on

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:08pm

Any system that does not allow for success and failure is destined to fail

coolblue

5/25/22 7:09am

Jaxon Dart.. Roy -> Corner Canyon -> USC -> Ole Miss

TheLost

5/25/22 7:32am

Exactly, it is about PT.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:07am

Dart didn’t go to CC for playing time. He was already playing at Roy. He went

NWCoug

5/25/22 8:24am

He went to Roy for PT not CC. No way he goes to Roy if PT was not involved, don't kid yourself.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:53am

... He started at Roy. How much more playing time can you get?

Blusox

5/25/22 8:24am

He went to Roy for PT and CC for exposure/not championships.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 8:53am

Yes, Dart was a Farmington kid(so it is happening in Davis County) went to Roy

palangi

5/25/22 9:54am

These kinds of comments always baffle me…

Vernon Dozier

5/25/22 8:02am

Maddux Madsen, starting QB at AF in the Fall, signed with Boise state, started last night for Lehi. Maybe they moved...

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:17am

That kind of stuff is definitely weird. Doesn't seem to fit into the rules

fattycoug

5/25/22 8:20am

I was a state champion, all-state athlete. You would have to chop off my fingers before I moved schools to compete at

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:24am

Agree, but team sports are different.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 9:06am

However, you could easily argue that Mountain View coaches (depending on when..Dave Houle)

TheLoneCougar

5/25/22 9:14am

Houle, Arbogast, Kuhlmann. Best of the best. And this is a great point.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:17am

The beauty of “clock-based” sports

cougfanz

5/25/22 9:48am

Same here on all accounts. What years did you run? Maybe we know each other.

RUNBYU1

5/25/22 10:15am

Loophole for Maddux…

Vernon Dozier

5/25/22 8:31am

Yep. This is the game, “playing time”

The Old Y

5/25/22 8:37am

I looked into this...you need to be the head coach to be able to do this. Maybe it has changed in the last 4 years. For

doctorcoug

5/25/22 8:50am

Madsen's younger brother also plays for Lehi. Maddux wanted to play with his

BYUheaven

5/25/22 9:07am

Interesting that the kid left one Ingersoll to play for his brother.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:12pm

Dad is a coach at Lehi and his brothers played there

Baseball77

5/25/22 12:16pm

If you're going to rail against something, at least be right about it.

fattycoug

5/25/22 8:12am

I wished my kids could have played one sport where

BillyGoat

5/25/22 8:18am

Honestly, usually it's not about winning. It's about lazy recruiting scouts visiting 2-3 schools in an area.

Marc Spector

5/25/22 8:37am

I can see high school sports going away in 10 years

Blusox

5/25/22 8:43am

For a while, I was scared high school football was going away with all the

crack

5/25/22 9:12am

No way. High school sports are here to stay. Schools and communities need them.

Big Daddy D

5/26/22 1:44pm

Basketball and football are still pretty strong,

Blusox

6/5/22 7:50pm

When kids transfer, do they have to sit out? I think in AZ the first transfer

crack

5/25/22 9:11am

You can enroll in any school whenever you want. If you have played sports at

fattycoug

5/25/22 9:14am

But, you can still play JV and develop. You only sit varisty.

doctorcoug

5/25/22 10:46am

In AZ, they can't play at all. At least, I believe that's the rule.

crack

5/25/22 1:10pm

Man, really ruffled some Utah County dads feathers here. #UtahCountyBoard

The Old Y

5/25/22 9:45am

You haven't been reading any of the posts huh?

ManicBlue

5/25/22 10:46am

You guys think open enrollment is bad in 5A 6A try being a rural 3A and 2A

Baseball77

5/25/22 12:18pm

I've noticed this before. I can't imagine being Ogden and saying, hey,

The Old Y

5/25/22 12:44pm

It is generally always towards those with means.

Cougstreak

5/25/22 12:48pm

As a head Baseball coach at 6A Davis County school here’s my 2 cents

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:16pm

This is great insight coach. So the rules are/were different. Makes sense to me.

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:23pm

RE: This is great insight coach. So the rules are/were different. Makes sense to

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:34pm

100% True. We have 4 or 5 teammates whose dads played on the same team 25 years

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:37pm

He hit the nail on the head. MWB and RA baseball academy are producing some

BYUheaven

5/25/22 1:40pm

RE: He hit the nail on the head. MWB and RA baseball academy are producing some

jkgteg

5/25/22 1:47pm

We've played with a few of the Freemont kids, they drove to UC for the YardDawgs

The Old Y

5/25/22 1:53pm

Good luck on setting that up. More quality training is good for the whole state

BYUheaven

5/25/22 2:03pm

No one is talking about the open enrollment gorilla at AF.

Dr. 91coug

5/25/22 2:49pm

Lucy Wallin from Rowland Hall...freshman 1st singles state champ. She ended up going to Skyline (I think) the next year

doctorcoug

5/25/22 1:40pm

Its fine to go to the right school!

sailorcoug11

5/25/22 12:50pm

Same way where I live and I hate it

zerome4sooners

5/25/22 2:22pm

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