No... throw out the system when it's completely unnecessary.

good post

Blueto

1/8/13 10:27am

An honor code violation for turning someone in might be a little much

rad dawg

1/8/13 10:28am

My experience with the honor code was far different

Cosmodiar

1/8/13 10:31am

Most here don't have a clue how it works or how it is applied

Mems

1/8/13 10:35am

were you ever called in to meet with the honor code office?

RisinUp

1/8/13 10:39am

I was a tutor for football players in early 90's - knew about some violations,

farsurfer

1/8/13 1:00pm

I must have missed that when I was at BYU. I don't recall thinking about the

HenderCoug

1/8/13 10:28am

Correcto.

Sheikh Djibouti

1/8/13 10:36am

Then you wouldn't know

BigYfan

1/8/13 10:41am

BYU is really good, but could be better, at forcing people to choose the right.

SaltLakeCoug

1/8/13 1:42pm

<< Deleted >>

CougarEyes

1/9/13 7:39am

I think the best way to make sure someone holds to certain standards is to shun

DapperDan

1/8/13 10:29am

Loving shun? Awesome.

CougarFella

1/8/13 2:02pm

RE: I think the best way to make sure someone holds to certain standards is to

gedderdunn

1/9/13 9:33am

The HC office

DapperDan

1/9/13 9:35am

I think there is a lot of faith promoting rumor regarding the evils...

Cougar Insider

1/8/13 10:34am

This is a silly thing to bring up, yet someone always does. BYU was a church

taekwondave

1/8/13 3:13pm

Solid post

goose

1/8/13 10:36am

POTD

RisinUp

1/8/13 10:38am

sure

Belboz

1/8/13 10:39am

I agree. If the rumors were true about Manti Teo I wish Bronco would have

buhlcougar

1/8/13 10:42am

You say if the rumors are true then you ask why we shun sinners. We don't even

Real G Man

1/8/13 10:55am

In terms of shunning sinners I'm talking about the ones we do know.

buhlcougar

1/8/13 10:58am

That my friend is wild speculation, unless you can back it up. You don't know

Real G Man

1/8/13 1:43pm

Not a fan of exploiting people's personal problems for football

aTmcoug

1/8/13 11:56am

How is that exploiting a person's problem? The other colleges are exploiting

buhlcougar

1/8/13 12:24pm

BYU is not the place to come to correct your problems

aTmcoug

1/8/13 12:40pm

If everyone came to BYU with your thoughts in mind then all would be well but we

Real G Man

1/8/13 10:51am

There is something wrong with the Honor Code: It's more restrictive than

PGVikingDad

1/8/13 1:04pm

Well, it should be more difficult to get in, actually, but not as it pertains to

taekwondave

1/8/13 3:19pm

IN what way is the honor code more restrictive

dratax

1/8/13 4:26pm

I'm not talking about working at the temple, but attending.

PGVikingDad

1/8/13 4:41pm

Assuming your description is correct.

dratax

1/8/13 4:49pm

This would cease to be a problem if they simply separated the dress code from

taekwondave

1/8/13 4:53pm

We are all our brothers keepers? Funny twist on the Cain quote, don't you think?

taekwondave

1/8/13 3:18pm

Here's a concrete suggestion... get rid of it.

FierceArc

1/8/13 9:50pm

Everyone has their own bubble

CougAntWave

1/8/13 10:51am

Im with you

vcCoug

1/8/13 5:08pm

Lot of nazis run that place.

Y4LYFE

1/8/13 12:14pm

My experience with the honor code office

yorksama

1/8/13 12:32pm

Hard core delinquent ^^^^^^^^^^

Born2Fish

1/8/13 12:50pm

Seems to me had you gone in there might have been a different end to this

Real G Man

1/8/13 1:48pm

No, it wouldn't have

yorksama

1/8/13 2:09pm

Seems like your real beef is with campus PD, not the honor code office here

Mems

1/8/13 2:18pm

My beef was with both.

yorksama

1/8/13 2:45pm

Sounds like Arnie Lemmon got you

PrisonMike

1/8/13 3:36pm

Give someone a little authority and... unrighteous dominion

frontrowcougar

1/8/13 4:05pm

My paper airplane experience

klay

1/8/13 6:25pm

I've had a lot of situations like this with campus PD

cougarBee

1/8/13 7:38pm

That is a nightmare of a story....

SaltLakeCoug

1/8/13 10:46pm

Good post

Born2Fish

1/8/13 12:44pm

My son left the BYU football program because of the Tattle Tale culture of BYU

raiderhater

1/8/13 12:45pm

Tell him thanks for leaving.

Ragid1

1/8/13 3:11pm

He left because of the tattle tale, I'm more righteous than you attitude.

raiderhater

1/8/13 4:09pm

Let me ask you this

Ragid1

1/9/13 4:30pm

OK Jerk I sure will, your just as bad as the holier than thou kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

raiderhater

1/8/13 4:14pm

LOL- are you really name calling?

bigbluecougar

1/8/13 4:50pm

Oh no, I just am trying to prove a point your going to turn me into CB, see

raiderhater

1/8/13 4:56pm

<< Deleted >>

bigbluecougar

1/8/13 6:07pm

Troll or snitch?

g$

1/8/13 4:19pm

Neither

Ragid1

1/9/13 4:34pm

Snitch then got it.

g$

1/9/13 4:54pm

I see your point

Ragid1

1/10/13 9:08am

there should be no necessary evils in the honor code

g$

1/10/13 9:32am

Wrong

Ragid1

1/10/13 2:03pm

What makes you think it's your job to confess others' sins to their bishop?

taekwondave

1/10/13 2:30pm

Oh, saying he sounds like a teenage girl isn't offensive at all, no. Way to keep

taekwondave

1/10/13 9:44am

BYU is the training ground for the churches future leaders

g$

1/10/13 10:04am

I think you are putting words in people's mouth and I think calling it a snitch

Real G Man

1/10/13 11:38am

You are proving my point...

g$

1/10/13 1:13pm

Again, G-money wins this one.

taekwondave

1/10/13 2:31pm

not trying to be a jerk, but was he playing?

Ft Worth Cougar

1/8/13 3:31pm

CA boy, not cut out for the holiness factor!

raiderhater

1/8/13 4:59pm

so that would be a no. Thats fine, just curious.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 9:14am

So...has anyone here ever experienced Honor Code "tattling" first-hand?

PGVikingDad

1/8/13 12:58pm

I was tattled on twice - never knew WHO tattled - put on probation both times

dougman82

1/8/13 1:04pm

Happened to me... It's definitely real, not legend.

RisinUp

1/8/13 1:47pm

It does happen and sometimes definitely should happen but I think CB makes a

Real G Man

1/8/13 2:15pm

If you had ever been falsely accused of something serious, I would imagine you

g$

1/8/13 2:45pm

that's fair, but put yourself in the shoes of a girl

Jimmy Rocket

1/8/13 3:02pm

You are guilty until proven innocent... with no way to refute your accuser

g$

1/8/13 3:15pm

You realize the difference between a criminal investigation and a HC...

Accipiter

1/8/13 8:32pm

really? there's a difference?

Jimmy Rocket

1/9/13 8:01am

This is one of the biggest problems with the HCO... You are guilty until proven

RisinUp

1/8/13 3:17pm

lol we posted same thought at almost the same time

g$

1/8/13 3:43pm

The situation where someone comes away from the HC office and views

RisinUp

1/8/13 3:53pm

LOL, so you're telling me that I don't want to be called to the HCO?

baastablue

1/8/13 4:03pm

I think they are neither. Rather, they are incredibly inappropriate in what they

taekwondave

1/8/13 4:14pm

Why would you confess to something you didn't do and why wouldn't you confess

Real G Man

1/8/13 11:07pm

I am saying don't confess in the absence of hard evidence. Think what you

taekwondave

1/9/13 8:09am

Remember, I'm not talking about not confessing to God or your Bishop, I'm

taekwondave

1/9/13 8:11am

Except that you signed a contract to not engage in certain otherwise personal

Accipiter

1/9/13 8:26am

If you are falsely accused it doesn't matter

g$

1/9/13 8:42am

The point, friend, is that they shouldn't make people sign that. Yes, you could

taekwondave

1/9/13 10:28am

So the HC should be more like "guidelines"? That's hilarious.

stoils

1/9/13 12:12pm

No. The HC should include standards of academic integrity. The bedroom, the

taekwondave

1/9/13 1:36pm

I don't understand why you can't get this.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 1:47pm

It wasn't ridiculous before the 1960's and it isn't any more ridiculous now.

taekwondave

1/9/13 1:51pm

In other words, many people, myself included, went to BYU DESPITE the HC, not

taekwondave

1/9/13 1:53pm

you're hard to reason with.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 1:57pm

I think you have a hard time listening. Church standards are fine for the church

taekwondave

1/9/13 2:10pm

I believe that Church standards should be enforced by those in authority to

RisinUp

1/9/13 2:17pm

You nailed it. Thank you for being more eloquent than me.

taekwondave

1/9/13 2:23pm

I understand a little better now, BUT

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 2:35pm

I know what they believe they're accomplishing. I think they're wrong is all.

taekwondave

1/9/13 2:38pm

one more question and I'm done with this.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 2:41pm

I guess it would depend on the commandment.

taekwondave

1/9/13 2:44pm

And even if every single commandment helped make you a better student (and

taekwondave

1/9/13 2:47pm

you know which ones i'm talking about. this is silly. you're a grown man.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 3:00pm

So I take it you mean sexual morality and drugs? I'll tell you what: If you

taekwondave

1/9/13 3:08pm

It isn't the Church's standard they are enforcing. The HC are BYU's. Isn't that

Accipiter

1/9/13 3:51pm

So why would a student be told to write papers over certain talks

RisinUp

1/9/13 3:56pm

Ah yes. I just LOOOOOVED reading those talks and then telling Ed all about it :)

taekwondave

1/9/13 3:57pm

Take away the HC and you have yewtah

stoils

1/10/13 12:03pm

LOL, that's quite the fantasy

DapperDan

1/10/13 12:06pm

Not even close to being true. Clearly you didn't attend either of those schools.

taekwondave

1/10/13 2:32pm

Clearly your deductive reasoning skills are lacking regarding

stoils

1/10/13 5:11pm

All you needed to say was "state school." Don't even pretend that BYU and Utah

taekwondave

1/10/13 7:36pm

That, friend, is ridiculous.

Accipiter

1/9/13 12:22pm

Now if we're talking dress code, that's another matter entirely. BYU could

taekwondave

1/9/13 1:42pm

I agree with you

g$

1/8/13 4:13pm

The fact that you say the tattling is necessary says a lot about you.

UNLVcougar

1/8/13 10:46pm

yeah, happened to me

Jimmy Rocket

1/8/13 2:23pm

How was ANY of that "necessary?" Silly thing to say.

taekwondave

1/8/13 3:46pm

My sister, her boyfriend and me all in seperate incidents

g$

1/8/13 2:32pm

I was evicted for what my roommate THOUGHT my girlfriend and I were doing

taekwondave

1/8/13 3:45pm

WOW. My feelings? It's an HONOR code, so secondhand reports shouldn't be allowed

PGVikingDad

1/8/13 4:27pm

RE: So...has anyone here ever experienced Honor Code "tattling" first-hand?

PowayCoug

1/8/13 5:57pm

Ex-girlfriend's roommate was smoking pot when her roommates weren't home

Y2010

1/9/13 3:13pm

I would say she had to share.

SaltLakeCoug

1/9/13 7:40pm

The Texas A&M honor code includes a line about intolerance of violators

aTmcoug

1/8/13 1:51pm

lol. BM Johnny football

byutx

1/8/13 2:01pm

I lived with the honor code, really, in a house. ;-)

HardManSports

1/8/13 2:21pm

A second thought - People who tattle

HardManSports

1/8/13 2:22pm

I had a sister attending BYU who, to this day, will tell you the only reason

baastablue

1/8/13 2:31pm

+1

Zenoch

1/8/13 3:09pm

If you know someone is doing something morally wrong *but not illegal*, then

PGVikingDad

1/8/13 4:35pm

Cheating on exams is not illegal

dratax

1/8/13 4:56pm

Why the distinction? Whether legal or illegal, the Honor Code prohibits

baastablue

1/8/13 5:05pm

Stop perverting the meaning and intent of that scripture.

taekwondave

1/8/13 5:53pm

RE: I had a sister attending BYU who, to this day, will tell you the only reason

CougarBoard77

1/9/13 12:00am

You're missing my point.

baastablue

1/9/13 8:03am

No Subject

CougarBoard77

1/10/13 8:39am

you're managing a couple of kids. BYU is wrangling 30,000.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/8/13 3:28pm

From my experience, you can be punished for NOT tattling

Riseandshout81

1/8/13 4:04pm

I think your assessment is not an accurate one. I had a family member

PhilPete

1/8/13 4:06pm

As a parent, I want the HC enforced

stoils

1/8/13 4:28pm

Not wanting those kinds of things to happen, and actually taking steps to peek

taekwondave

1/8/13 4:33pm

The peeking isn't the problem... the problem is that there are too many people

stoils

1/8/13 4:47pm

Oh brother. What a stallion you are.

taekwondave

1/8/13 4:53pm

I attended BYU in undergrad and law school, had only one run in with the HC

LV Mike

1/8/13 5:09pm

Absent the honor code BYU is still special. I believe BYU is a special

taekwondave

1/8/13 5:56pm

Agree, it is an honor and privilege to attend BYU

Hang10

1/8/13 7:31pm

I had roommates and friends who bent/broke the honor code

Fatalplacebo

1/8/13 6:11pm

RE: I had roommates and friends who bent/broke the honor code

Shawarma

1/8/13 9:07pm

^^meant for main thread^^

Shawarma

1/8/13 9:19pm

Not just at BYU.

buster

1/8/13 6:29pm

This is how students are typically treated

stonewallperry

1/8/13 7:33pm

Those who report on others should be warned that they will be investigated

Accipiter

1/8/13 8:28pm

I agree. BYU HC seems more like a witch hunt then loving guidance... at least

FierceArc

1/8/13 9:38pm

So you let your prejudices, however right or wrong, possible deny your kids what

Real G Man

1/8/13 11:14pm

Your last sentence is ironic since the HC does just that... dictates what

FierceArc

1/9/13 5:10pm

What a warped sense of the HC you must have. Thousands upon thousands

Real G Man

1/10/13 8:22am

The system itself is offensive. It is culturally inappropriate to peak into

taekwondave

1/10/13 8:31am

No... throw out the system when it's completely unnecessary.

FierceArc

1/10/13 9:47am

I am glad you know it is completely unnecessary ....maybe you ought to share

Real G Man

1/10/13 12:20pm

My arguments are not new. They already know and of course they're not going to

FierceArc

1/10/13 1:12pm

If this is how it works:

dratax

1/9/13 4:19pm

So Brandon Davies would have gone through what he did had he attended

FierceArc

1/9/13 5:12pm

perhaps not national news, but it may be local news

dratax

1/9/13 5:47pm

It wouldn't have been local news any more than some youth in your ward or stake

FierceArc

1/9/13 6:31pm

it wouldn't get the same play today

dratax

1/9/13 9:49pm

That misses the point though. Didnt have to happen at all.

FierceArc

1/9/13 10:14pm

+1 it's time for a change to how the HC is enforced.

swingcat

1/8/13 10:56pm

The Brandon Davies scenario was a disaster.

SaltLakeCoug

1/8/13 11:20pm

TIC?

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 2:37pm

RE: TIC?

SaltLakeCoug

1/9/13 7:43pm

Agreed, but the other side of the coin is exceptions for athletes.

Ft Worth Cougar

1/9/13 8:56pm

Well freaking said

Italics

1/9/13 1:53am

Did everyone go to the same BYU that I did!?

CougarEyes

1/9/13 7:42am

Duke University Community Standard

Y2010

1/9/13 2:58pm

Posting on CougarBoard