because we get hammered at the bar, or the other 2-3 justifications overlooks the real issues w how we was misplayed our hand the first go around.

I know there's plenty of CBers who refuse to believe it was mishandled in any way. But that's ignoring several examples in the last 20 years. Some see speaking up as disloyal or anti Mormon somehow. I see refusing to recognize some issues as dooming us to repeat them.