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Jan 25, 2022
5:41
:14
pm
Jay Kay
All-American
Bonds is a top ten all time position player without steroids.
He wouldn't have the all time runs record or the all time home run record, but he was an all time great. Up there with the greatest of the great.
With steroids he's the best hitter of all time.
This message has been modified
Originally posted on Jan 25, 2022 at 5:41:14pm
Message modified by Jay Kay on Jan 25, 2022 at 5:42:01pm
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Jay Kay
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Josef K
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Jay Kay
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Last login
Jun 11, 2024
Total posts
30,611 (266 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
That is a sack of... well, you know. Writers punish the PED users they dislike.
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:23pm
Let Dale Murphy in.
Carnac
1/25/22 4:26pm
Dale's career got overshadowed by the roiders. They made his numbers look small
wabluecoug
1/25/22 4:30pm
Dale wasn't nice enough to the electors. That is apparently the key criteria.
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:31pm
Top 20 all time in HRs when he retired
TrackCoug
1/25/22 4:35pm
Manfred has come out previously and said Ortiz’ positive test from 2003 was questionable
JOPE
1/25/22 4:35pm
Yeah, that's not what he said.
Jay Kay
1/25/22 4:39pm
RE: Yeah, that's not what he said.
JOPE
1/25/22 4:45pm
So we agree that he did not say it was likely a false positive?
Jay Kay
1/25/22 4:46pm
Lol, hopefully nobody believes that. Covering his butt after the testing report leaked
TCuz
1/25/22 4:39pm
Did you just say suspicion alone? Sorry that made me laugh. You don't actually believe what you just said, do you?
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:44pm
Don’t worry, I get it. Some guys test positive, we hand wave it away, pretend it never happened
TCuz
1/25/22 4:59pm
You lose all credibility when you say things like:
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 5:13pm
Yes Ortiz was tested every year and never had another positive and those results weren't using the same methods
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:39pm
Testing negative means nothing. Just ask Lance.
TrackCoug
1/25/22 4:41pm
Oh I think it means something. Using your logic there is no reason to test ever for anything
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:43pm
Oh it’s still useful
TrackCoug
1/25/22 4:49pm
What positive test do you hold against Bonds and Clemens?
shimmy
1/25/22 4:44pm
Eye Witness Reports, Balco reports, positive Urine tests...I can keep going
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:48pm
A-Rod also only failed a steroid test in 2003
Jay Kay
1/25/22 4:47pm
Just to be clear, you think Ortiz should be in?
Jay Kay
1/25/22 5:06pm
Why no on Clemens? Seems to be political. BTW, it’s time to put Pete Rose in.
Hank Rearden
1/25/22 4:37pm
Rose should be in ahead of any steroiders.
Carnac
1/25/22 4:40pm
The fact that he wasn't even a player when he did it makes his banishment worse
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:58pm
Schilling is purely political. I could never stand the guy, but he should be in.
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:56pm
Good article by Jeff Passan earlier today. He had a good point about Bud Selig--
mncougar
1/25/22 4:39pm
Bud Selig didn't deserve to get in, but not sure that makes it so we should elect Bonds and Clemens
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:41pm
Article:
mncougar
1/25/22 4:41pm
The owners, media, commissioners, etc. all owed their success to steroids
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:45pm
Did the players also not benefit from it all in the form of tens of millions of dollars? Records that weren't
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:51pm
Bud Selig oversaw the entire league during that time and is in the HOF
CaliWG
1/25/22 4:54pm
I'm not a Bug Selig fan. But who would have been the last to know? The commissioner. The coaches, media, owners
kimdaddy35
1/25/22 4:56pm
Selig was an Owner during the steroid era too
CaliWG
1/25/22 5:00pm
Agreed. If you're keeping 1 guy out for using steroids, they all should be left
SoValleyCOUG
1/25/22 4:42pm
Unfortunately, being likeable is a current criteria.
bluecheese
1/25/22 4:44pm
Agree. It’s stupid. No reason Guys like McGwire, Bonds and Clemens should
southbaycoug
1/25/22 4:59pm
I hated Barry Bonds, but steroids played no role in him being the best baseball
Jay Kay
1/25/22 5:07pm
Steroids played no role in his home run "record"?
RockyBalboa
1/25/22 5:14pm
I don't think anyone is arguing they didn't play a role in his records
CaliWG
1/25/22 5:29pm
We simply don't know what his numbers would be if he weren't a cheater.
RockyBalboa
1/25/22 6:12pm
Considering he was already 400/400 pre steroids there are reasonable projections
CaliWG
1/25/22 6:40pm
Was he cheating before then? We'll never know I guess.
RockyBalboa
1/26/22 7:07am
No
CaliWG
1/26/22 7:40am
That's another issue. Like many have already said he was already great
RockyBalboa
1/26/22 9:44am
And rightfully so, his records should be tainted
CaliWG
1/26/22 10:29am
I don’t agree. It isn’t human nature to do what he did.
TrackCoug
1/26/22 10:44am
Then why were as many as 80% of MLB players using PEDs to compete?
CaliWG
1/26/22 11:01am
The 80% figure is made up
TrackCoug
1/26/22 11:08am
I don't disagree, but it is indicative of an overwhelming majority
CaliWG
1/26/22 11:10am
It is indicative of nothing. These guys are known liars and cheats.
TrackCoug
1/26/22 11:11am
The guy who blew the whistle on the entire issue is the liar?
CaliWG
1/26/22 11:18am
Yes the guy, who for over 15 years claimed he never doped, is a liar
TrackCoug
1/26/22 11:22am
You're right baseball had a really bad steroid culture
RockyBalboa
1/26/22 10:49am
We don’t need to know. Without those years, he’s still miles ahead of ortiz
Jay Kay
1/25/22 8:46pm
Bonds is a top ten all time position player without steroids.
Jay Kay
1/25/22 5:41pm
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