have a thermic effect as well. I agree with you that Protein has a higher thermic effect but your post indicates that carbs have no thermic effect. You say they have an opposite effect.

The problem that I see is that we are really getting into the weeds of the argument. For most average joes trying to lose weight being at a calorie deficit is the most important thing. If someone wants to get more advanced and get into the macro nutrient breakdown, more power to them. That is like the second step of the process. I see so many people who start applying the second step to the first step and the whole thing breaks down.