I don’t buy into team records as a good measure for individual player skill. IMO it’s the most overused and overrated

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Aug 13, 2018
9:19:28pm

mvtoro Scrub

I don’t buy into team records as a good measure for individual player skill. IMO it’s the most overused and overrated

data point in player v player debates.

And yes this includes championships.

Eg. Emmit Smith wasn’t better than Barry Sanders

Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer weren’t better than Dan Marino and Fran Tarkenton

Robbie Boscoe wasn’t better than Ty Detmer

Max Hall wasn’t better than John Beck

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mvtoro

Bio page: mvtoro
Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Last login: Apr 27, 2024
Total posts: 11,557 (753 FO)

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Messages

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Time

Why I left the scrimmage yesterday fairly giddy.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 10:24am

Wow... at LEAST be compared to Max Hall??

papencoug

8/12/18 10:26am

I didn’t think this was an unpopular opinion, maybe it is. But, I think Max Hall is one of the greats.

scootsy

8/12/18 10:27am

I consider Max one of the greats.

papencoug

8/12/18 10:35am

Most wins for a QB in School history. Upset #3 Oklahoma. He is a great. If

BYUtka

8/12/18 11:00am

I love Max too

JKLCoug

8/13/18 9:03am

But that's the whole point, isn't it?

Eddie

8/13/18 9:57am

yes, agree

JKLCoug

8/13/18 2:05pm

Um, he was fantastic against OU

Y05

8/13/18 7:42pm

Sounds like you remember better than I do

JKLCoug

8/14/18 9:44am

Could/should have been 24 points

Y05

8/14/18 6:28pm

He is obviously one of the greats

8/12/18 11:01am

Only reason to disagree is nostalgia bias from the 80s

DanSmith

8/12/18 4:58pm

Not even debatable really

Triznaynay

8/12/18 7:42pm

So basically you thought the defense was terrible.

Cougarclaw

8/12/18 10:29am

That's what I read. Down with Tuiaki!

8/12/18 3:33pm

Max Hall is a great.

TPcoug

8/12/18 10:29am

Absolutely, IMO

Dan

8/12/18 10:30am

I agree... I edited my post. My question mark was for the OP.

TPcoug

8/12/18 10:35am

Most wins by a BYU QB evah!!!

8/12/18 10:31am

2-1 against Utah. 2-1 in bowl games. 1 conference championship. Winningest BYU QB ever.

Holy Driver

8/12/18 10:32am

Craptastic games every time against Utah. Defense won those two games. And he

SandYFan

8/12/18 10:34am

Don't ever change.

Left Shark Coug

8/12/18 10:36am

Come on. You got to give him a little credit.

Holy Driver

8/12/18 10:38am

4th and 18 was a horribly underthrown pass that was only completed

SandYFan

8/12/18 10:40am

He was on the run on 4th and 18. Didn’t plant his feet.

Holy Driver

8/12/18 10:45am

I don't care if he didn't plant his feet. The pass was underthrown 10 yards.

SandYFan

8/12/18 10:53am

Your poor wife

TPcoug

8/12/18 10:55am

I have. Less than 50% accuracy. TD/INT was way off. But you make it sound like they

Holy Driver

8/12/18 10:59am

Do you know how far ten yards is?

COACHdrn

8/12/18 8:12pm

He had a seperated shoulder.

byubyu

8/12/18 11:46am

But it was completed... right?

BYUtka

8/12/18 11:52am

You are an eternal pessimist aren't you

TPcoug

8/12/18 10:39am

Nah. Jamaal Williams was an all-time stud. Love Harvey. John Beck was

SandYFan

8/12/18 10:42am

<< Deleted >>

Abe Froman

8/13/18 9:57am

Not sure what Max Hall did to you....

bushy7

8/12/18 10:41am

And the defense allowed him to be in a spot where it even mattered.

SandYFan

8/12/18 10:44am

So... they did their job..

BYUtka

8/12/18 11:54am

A win is a win.

BYUtka

8/12/18 11:50am

RE: Craptastic games every time against Utah. Defense won those two games. And he

Slim

8/12/18 12:01pm

one of a kind right here

8/12/18 3:35pm

<< Deleted >>

Abe Froman

8/12/18 7:47pm

Fact: the defense gave up a fourth quarter lead in both of Max's wins

Y05

8/13/18 8:10pm

I don’t buy into team records as a good measure for individual player skill. IMO it’s the most overused and overrated

mvtoro

8/13/18 9:19pm

It's probably overrated, but I don't think it is meaningless

Y05

8/13/18 9:55pm

It can’t be meaningless. It’s team performance but he’s still the most important player on that team.

mvtoro

8/13/18 11:27pm

I misspoke. I know Max is a great which I think is ZW’s floor.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 10:35am

The winningest QB in BYU history is Zach’s floor? Wowzer.

8/12/18 10:55am

"Bold". That is one word for it... Considering the fact that we couldn't get past midfield, vs. LSU, and finished among

whitey1980

8/12/18 11:22pm

RE: I misspoke. I know Max is a great which I think is ZW’s floor.

mightybrick

8/12/18 11:38am

Geez, don’t do that to ZW...

ColumbusCoug

8/13/18 5:07am

I think Max is incredibly overrated; however...

dk4

8/12/18 12:42pm

Who the crap is in your top 15?

Left Shark Coug

8/12/18 1:29pm

15 dudes you’d take over Max Hall?!?!?!

climps

8/12/18 1:32pm

Now I am curious, who would you place in your top 15?

crazY

8/12/18 6:26pm

<< Deleted >>

Abe Froman

8/12/18 8:00pm

I'll take another crappy quarterback like max as long as...

baldcoug74

8/12/18 9:31pm

Man I thumbs-downed this like three hours ago but I still can’t get over how bad

8/12/18 9:40pm

<< Deleted >>

Jimmy Rocket

8/12/18 9:45pm

Who is the Top 15? My list of where I think BYU fandom ranks our QBs

Zoobieman

8/13/18 12:23pm

But which unit were they succeeding against?

Ash

8/12/18 10:41am

Both played multiple drives against the 1’s and 2’s on D.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 10:44am

Our 1s on D are basically 3s everywhere else

Y4LYFE

8/12/18 10:55am

Because the season hasn't started so reality hasn't sunk in yet?

Hypnotoad

8/12/18 10:46am

Hopefully this doesn’t mean the defense isn’t horrible

bald man

8/12/18 10:51am

The run game due to the backs or the Oline?

pegushin

8/12/18 10:57am

My pessimistic self would say it's becuz our DLine is terrible. It was last yr.

Jennerstein

8/12/18 11:11am

run defense was the one thing our defense was good at last year.

here's to hoping

8/13/18 10:12am

Due to the Oline and Scheme.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 12:12pm

So thus far Grimes scheme is looking good. Run to set up pass/SEC style?

pegushin

8/12/18 1:31pm

Without SEC talent.

whitey1980

8/12/18 11:45pm

That's some good Kool aid right there. Drink it up folks

swimbro

8/12/18 11:48am

#2 - lol. so at the very least will compare with the greatest winner

smokymountainrain

8/12/18 12:28pm

I left the scrimmage yesterday thinking... the Wilson hype is real.

TheLost

8/12/18 12:35pm

So at the least we have a QB who will win more games than any BYU QB ever?

AFcoug7

8/12/18 1:26pm

Haha... I'll believe it when I see it in a game

Byu_1988

8/12/18 1:40pm

Funny, I read almost the exact same post before 2017, 2016, 2015...

Backcountry

8/12/18 1:46pm

You’re back!? How’s Whitt?

Ocho Cuatro

8/12/18 8:29pm

How do you feel about the defense?

8/12/18 2:20pm

So our defense stinks now? Great!

stonecougar

8/12/18 4:04pm

I appreciate the report but I donno how anyone can come away from

CougarsFanSince80s

8/12/18 4:20pm

Like optimism but”run on anybody”? Ask me after Wiscy and UW if u feel the same

8/12/18 4:33pm

“ I heart Grimes” seriously ..... that’s where you lost me...

Pretorian

8/12/18 4:49pm

Ahh right, I'm sure you stopped reading right after that.

Machiavelli

8/12/18 6:10pm

I like Grimes a lot, it just the 13 year old girl phrasing... "I heart anything"

Pretorian

8/12/18 6:54pm

Can one say that Grimes is turning things around before a single ball in a real game has been snapped? I like what I am

whitey1980

8/12/18 11:54pm

Culture has already changed dramatically

Machiavelli

8/13/18 7:55am

I agree. I'm just being very cautiously optimistic before I see them play in a real game. 90% cautious/10% optimistic.

whitey1980

8/13/18 7:48pm

Yeah - it's just a little premature to say that the team has been turned around.

Eddie

8/13/18 8:08pm

RE: Why I left the scrimmage yesterday fairly giddy.

8/12/18 5:09pm

Lol at #1 and #2,...couldn’t keep reading past that.

Ocho Cuatro

8/12/18 8:27pm

Yeah reading is hard. Keep trying though Joe.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 8:57pm

RE: Yeah reading is hard. Keep trying though Joe.

Ocho Cuatro

8/12/18 9:35pm

RE: Yeah reading is hard. Keep trying though Joe.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 9:40pm

So I took that as

jkccoug

8/12/18 9:24pm

Made me laugh.

YbeatsU

8/12/18 9:27pm

That was the goal

jkccoug

8/13/18 9:11am

Glass half empty much?

Yunit

8/13/18 7:27am

Not buying into any preseason hype. Show me BYU

Borg

8/13/18 9:19am

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