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Jun 24, 2019
3:18:32pm
TheWanderer Playmaker
Dating versus essentially everything else in life.
(Message should be related to: https://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=21862992)

 

A Tirade on Date and Mate as it relates to YSA wards. 

The Wanderer (CougarBoard dating radical

As I have thought about the "I hate boys!!!!" thread, I have been again reminded of what a disservice we do to single adults when we teach them that happiness is contingent upon being married (frequently with the rider "ASAP"). For some reason, dating and marriage have become a very unique entity, one for which the advice we give is rather contrary to advice we would give in almost any other instance.

Picture this pieces of advice:

"It's the boys' job to ask you young ladies out on dates. If you are not getting dates, it's ultimately them to blame."

vs.

"It's the employers' job to seek you young ladies out for employment. If you are not getting jobs, it's ultimately them to blame."

 

In terms of women feeling they can't ask men on dates, I often hear "Well, that's just the culture! Nothing I can do about it." Really? Nothing you can do about changing a culture? I sort of doubt that. This is not a revolutionary concept. That's lazy sociology at best, and flat out wrong in many cases. Is this what you would tell your daughter about an employer who wants to pay them less than a man in an equivalent job? (Okay, I know that's a very liberal concept, but focus on the point at hand here). 

 

"Yeah, honey, I know it's tough that [insert company] prefers to hire male scientists and pay them more, but that's just the culture we live in! There's nothing you can do about it and you should just go to your room and eat some ice cream instead of thinking of how to improve your resume and seek out a different opportunity."

 

Yet I saw advice like this given to YSA ladies all of the time when it came to dating. What crippling and short-sighted advice. That is not how to mentor young people. It is a defeatist attitude and teaches that we should find someone to blame when we don't get what we want in life. Happiness is not contingent on being married. In fact, sometimes being married works counter to happiness and inner peace. (Can I say that?) Marriage is not a secret to happiness, and it does not ensure one's earthly or heavenly salvation. 

 

Here is another pair of advice:

Instead of only applying to the most appealing colleges, you should also send some applications out to some community colleges so that they will feel better about themselves.

vs. 

Instead of only asking to the most appealing girls on dates, you should also ask out some of the girls you don't find appealing so that they will feel better about themselves.

 

College applications are not charities. Dating is not a charity. End of story. Is it really all that effective to take some girl out on a pity date anyway? It builds her hopes up falsely (at best) and likely makes her feel like a project. And then when she isn't asked on a second date, her daddy gets to blame the boy who asked her on the charity date. 

 

Another thought:

"You got a 24 on the ACT and have a 3.2 high school GPA. But if Cornell (your dream school) doesn't seek you out and accept you, I'll have the high school principal give them a good tongue lashing."

vs.

"You are 20 lbs overweight and profess a love of opera. But if Conrad (your dream man) doesn't seek you out and date you, I'll have the bishop give the elders a good tongue lashing."

 

We have to address body weight here. Not everyone is rail thin. And that is entirely fine. My own wife is not a size 0. There is a lot more to any human than body weight. And physical attractiveness is usually higher up on a man's list than it is on a woman's list. But physical attractiveness is still on a woman's list. Let's not pretend that some 350 lbs slop job of a man with a really great heart (metphysically speaking) and a good ($95k/year) job is going to have the ladies swooning over him.  Let's also not pretend that a woman cannot (and should not) have a realistic and healthy body image. Sure, she can get as big as she wants. But she shouldn't complain when boys aren't knocking down her door. No single girl is so busy that she cannot eat well and exercise to the point that she has a well taken care of body. She's not just subject to the whims of the ether as to physical attractiveness. 

As for opera....I cite that as an example of something most men do not profess an interest in. Opera is a great art. But it is not a man magnet. And I had a lady bemoan the fact that her daughter cannot meet a "cultured" man who likes opera. Ya think?

Let's also be clear on something:

 

It 👏 is 👏 not 👏 the 👏 bishop's 👏 job 👏 or 👏 place 👏 to 👏 regulate 👏 dating 👏.

 

(It is not the bishop's job or place to regulate dating. Those are claps not tacos, BTW). This is not how to gain the trust of ward memebers if you are a YSA leader. I never walked out of one of the "All the poor princesses in our ward are feeling sad that they are not being asked on dates" meetings feeling pumped to go out and ask girls on dates. I mostly just walked out conflicted as to why the leaders though it was more important to talk about social customs than it was to talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it certainly did not make me look to those leaders as, you know, leaders and mentors. The bishop is not a dating referee. Don't expect (or allow) him to be.  It just is not his job. 

 

"But, but, but, YSA men are all porn addicts and love video games, so it's really hard for my daughter to find someone."

 

It is indeed true that there are some men who are not going anywhere in life. Sure. I was on the singles' scence for 10 years before I got married. I saw quite a few YSA wards to say the least. And there were a lot of deadbeat men. (Also a lot of deadbeat frumpy women, let's face it). But is your precious princess daughter trying to marry the average, or does she only need to find one young man to marry? Complaining that you cannot get married because some men in your area are deadbeats would be like giving up on applying for jobs because the average job in the US only pays $17/hr and you are looking for a higher paying job. I have interacted with hundreds of YSAs over eight states and two countries. I found really solid YSA men in every one of those locations. 

I guarantee that whatever your daughter does in life, I can find a man that does life more prolifically. (And vice versa of course. It's the Axiom of Infinite Choice). I met many men at BYU that worked a heck of a lot harder in life than essentially every girl in our ward. They were driven, stable men with their priorities in the right order. They were not porn addicts. And every girl they asked on a date never really reciprocated for a long term relationship, even when these men desired as much. (Which is curious, because essentially the only thing these guys didn't have was great looks....so maybe those girls do care about looks after all! How shallow).  

 

Conclusion.

First off, we conclude that I am a radical when it comes to YSA dating advice. I will openly admit that I find some of the Ensign articles on dating to be rather poor takes, written by old men with many daughters and the bully pulpit for demeaning young men. (For the record, citing TIME magazine and your 17-year-old granddaughter [who is a HIGH SCHOOLER, not a 27-year-old grown adult] as authoritative sources on YSA dating is uncharacteristicly lazy persuasive writing).

We also can conclude that teaching your daughters (and sons) that happiness is a function of some future event out of their control is bad sociology, engenders unhealthy attitudes, and, moreover, is actual false doctrine (or at the very least, counter to true doctrine). 

 

 😤😤😤😤😤😤😤😤

 

This message has been modified
Originally posted on Jun 24, 2019 at 3:18:32pm
Message modified by TheWanderer on Jun 24, 2019 at 3:21:53pm
Message modified by TheWanderer on Jun 24, 2019 at 3:22:31pm
TheWanderer
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TheWanderer
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Related Threads Topic: I just want to say boys are stupid!!! (BYUforlife, Jun 22, 2019 at 10:49pm)

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