I don’t find Haidt’s argument persuasive. He correctly musters the facts, but

Mar 29, 2024
5:36:50pm

valleus All-American

there is very little high quality evidence that social media is the causative factor. Nature had a pretty critical review of his recent book.

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valleus

Bio page: valleus
Joined: Feb 1, 2017
Last login: May 13, 2024
Total posts: 9,459 (2,213 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Suicide rates are now the highest since the Great Depression. Suicide rates in

valleus

Mar 29, 5:26pm

Where does the feeling of no hope come from? Social media.

Chester Copperpot

Mar 29, 5:28pm

Unfettered (read: inflationary) government spending, rising unemployment, spiking crime, non-stop corruption and spying.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 5:30pm

Teenagers aren't killing themselves over any of that.

vagabonder

Mar 29, 5:33pm

Teenagers weren't mentioned in the OP. That's your interpretation. Older people suffer from suicide too.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 5:34pm

This mindset shows it. People seem to be more pessimistic and love outrage porn.

Baron

Mar 29, 5:36pm

The feeling of material despair comes from not being able to afford food, transportation, housing, heating/cooling,

Division Bell

Mar 29, 5:43pm

The primary source of inflation is government spending? Link?

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 6:11pm

Covid never happened. Inflation isn't worldwide. Don't trust your lying eyes.

vagabonder

Mar 29, 6:13pm

Most people don't understand macroeconomics or what drives inflation.

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 6:15pm

Yep. Most people don't understand inflation. Celebrated economist and statistician Milton Friedman famously said

Division Bell

Mar 29, 6:31pm

By which he meant the Federal Reserve, as is clear in all his writings. Monetary

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 6:32pm

The Federal Reserve isn't governmental.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 6:40pm

His quote that you posted is saying exactly what I said, supporting it 100%. Thx

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 6:44pm

According to Friedman, government spending is the source of inflation. You can twist the argument to monetary policy and

Division Bell

Mar 29, 6:52pm

You have completely misunderstood Friedman. He never says that government

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 6:58pm

LOL. Do explain who is responsible for a rapid increase in the quantity of money? Who prints money? In response to...?

Division Bell

Mar 29, 7:03pm

In the US, the answer to both your questions is the Federal Reserve. It exists

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 7:08pm

It's been said that there are 4 economies

Division Bell

Mar 29, 7:33pm

Sure, on a cellular level, without govt, we would all be hunters/gathers or, at

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 7:04pm

War? Started by governments. Tariffs? Governments again. Labor markets? Regulated tightly by government. And so on.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 7:12pm

Exactly. So many ways to cause inflation that aren’t US govt spending.

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 7:30pm

Then we have Japan: decades of deflation/zero inflation despite incurring a

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 6:43pm

The BOJ will tell you that Japan is staring down its 4th decade of stagflation and wage deflation. Abenomics failed.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 7:00pm

You must be a troll.

Jelly Man

Mar 30, 1:34pm

And that feeling of despair may come from outrage and absurd views. So many older people come on here

Baron

Mar 30, 1:47pm

If only every out of work, drug addicted, overweight, divorced man had your

Jelly Man

Mar 30, 2:01pm

Inflation anxiety is real.

kotacoug

Mar 29, 6:32pm

I think a lot of people are nervous.

Division Bell

Mar 29, 7:59pm

Sure they are nervous in Canada. Their unemployment rate is near 6%. Ours is

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 10:14pm

Just look at CB. So much gloom & doom here, the world is going to yewt if you

Japan Coug

Mar 29, 5:31pm

Social media is playing a major role in depression

Jericho

Mar 29, 5:31pm

Interestingly, most of them do admit it.

Soren Tversky

Mar 29, 5:36pm

Adults too. They won't admit it either. Nobody is clean with Social Media. It's

777

Mar 29, 5:52pm

It's a problem for adults, but not nearly on the same level as it is for kids

Jericho

Mar 29, 6:05pm

That and income inequality, just like then, there is no way in sight to

Mitty

Mar 29, 5:33pm

Which is sad because there is a way. It is called working hard.

Chester Copperpot

Mar 29, 5:39pm

You should let them know

Mitty

Mar 29, 5:41pm

I do as often as I can. I have hundreds of clients that would hire anyone that

Chester Copperpot

Mar 29, 5:48pm

Sad. We've never had more opportunity, comfort, technology, ease, medical care

Jericho

Mar 29, 5:47pm

Young people have no hope with the far-left progressive socialist party...

byucougarsbig12

Mar 29, 5:39pm

LOL...the lefties rolling eyes, but Biden is their President.

byucougarsbig12

Mar 29, 5:54pm

Here's a bit of of help so you can understand some of the terms you use.

vagabonder

Mar 29, 6:03pm

Do you have a point that is about this post?

byucougarsbig12

Mar 29, 6:14pm

The point is if you understand the terms and ideologies you talk about, you'll

vagabonder

Mar 29, 6:26pm

Whatever the problem is...people will find a way to scapegoat the opposing

Blueto

Mar 29, 5:55pm

Yep, and MSNBC, CNN, ABC, Tic Toc, are the Preachers.

byucougarsbig12

Mar 29, 5:58pm

Don’t forget about Fox News, Breitbart, and Infowars.

allaboutthegainz

Mar 29, 7:00pm

Deaths from despair. It is a real thing in older men. Life expectancy is down

Jelly Man

Mar 30, 1:37pm

Source for changing morals and social media not impacting it? I think it is a

Sparkling Delirium

Mar 29, 5:29pm

Morals were very different in the 1910s, 1930s, 1980s, and today. There doesn’t

valleus

Mar 29, 5:39pm

So you think they feel no hope because of the nonsense they deal with on social

Stucoug83

Mar 29, 5:30pm

That's caused in part by social media.

LifeLongLakerFan

Mar 29, 5:31pm

Social media, depression, inflation, relationships (or lack of them), etc. Lots

BlooCoug

Mar 29, 5:31pm

What is the last statement based off of?

Soren Tversky

Mar 29, 5:32pm

I don’t find Haidt’s argument persuasive. He correctly musters the facts, but

valleus

Mar 29, 5:36pm

Yeah so that nature review is basically:

Soren Tversky

Mar 29, 5:51pm

I read Haidt as saying that social media is the primary

valleus

Mar 29, 6:37pm

Interesting. Did you look through/raise concerns with what him and Twenge were

Soren Tversky

Mar 29, 6:57pm

Young men are being left behind, and sadly a lot of the messaging towards them is not positive. I agree that young men

slappy

Mar 29, 5:32pm

Here’s a good article with accompanying graph:

valleus

Mar 29, 5:35pm

From the article

AtomicHamster

Mar 29, 6:16pm

Those yahoos may be too dumb to figure it out but I

rcbyufan

Mar 29, 6:29pm

Social media is playing a major role, there's countless studies that point to it

OnEMoReTrY

Mar 29, 5:36pm

They were decreasing from 2018 to 2020. We know what happened in 2020.

ochobeeguy

Mar 29, 5:36pm

Why do people have less hope now than at other periods in history? Seems like

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 5:39pm

The world has been preaching that if we just accept everyone for who they are

cougarbob137

Mar 29, 5:39pm

So the solution to increased suicide rates is promoting non-acceptance?

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 5:41pm

I think you captured what I said really well. If we were just a little more

cougarbob137

Mar 29, 5:46pm

I think it captures my confusion regarding the correlation of acceptance and

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 5:50pm

It’s not categorized in a way for me to get more into it than that. The world is

cougarbob137

Mar 29, 6:06pm

Possibly. Or it could be that there is another cause unrelated to acceptance.

Jay Kay

Mar 29, 6:09pm

1st sentence should be true. Problem is with how we decide a person’s

Soupie

Mar 29, 5:55pm

I like how definitively you state it's not because of social media. It's absolutely a part of it. It's because of

CSoul

Mar 29, 5:55pm

Only now are we producing adults who had 5+ yrs of teen smartphone use.

d-coug

Mar 29, 6:04pm

So true

TNT

Mar 29, 6:06pm

Hope and purpose. Having just one of those things causes your odds of suicide attempt to go next to 0 IMO.

darkcoug

Mar 29, 6:05pm

% male vs % female?

machete

Mar 29, 6:08pm

Usually male is way higher

Pretorian

Mar 29, 7:07pm

This article in the Atlantic is interesting.

Tweege

Mar 29, 7:10pm

Yeah this is a summary of Haidts work which the OP has said isn’t convincing

Soren Tversky

Mar 29, 7:15pm

Here’s my two cents

D.T. Survivor

Mar 29, 7:18pm

Utah age rates 11-23 have been horrible for years. I have seen soo many

wildlandfireguy

Mar 29, 8:41pm

Data is clear. It's screen time. Kids access to social media, smartphones, video

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