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Nov 6, 2019
8:13
:17
pm
puntersarepeople
Walk-on
For quality of education? No cigar
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puntersarepeople
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puntersarepeople
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Jan 1, 2018
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Jun 7, 2024
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Author
Time
Guys, this isn’t hard. BYU is demonstrably a better school than Utah. It’s not
TriggerWarning
11/6/19 4:16pm
On your second one it is true depending on context
puntersarepeople
11/6/19 4:27pm
and if talking about lower level Ivy schools, it isn't that far off
byu1
11/6/19 4:59pm
Not really. Cornell is waaaay more difficult to get into than BYU
jkccoug
11/6/19 8:57pm
RE: Not really. Cornell is waaaay more difficult to get into than BYU
WhyaskY?
11/6/19 9:11pm
Is that because Cornell's capacity is much smaller than BYU, or is there
Y05
11/7/19 2:50am
The 25th percentile ACT at Cornell is the 75th percentile at BYU
jkccoug
11/7/19 7:12am
Plus the acceptance rate is WAY lower. So even if you are in the range of
Scratch
11/7/19 7:18am
Acceptance rate is a false metric.
StalwartBraveTrue
11/7/19 12:18pm
Self-selection. Walk across Cornell
Archaea
11/7/19 4:15pm
That’s what I mean.
StalwartBraveTrue
11/7/19 4:22pm
The competitiveness to get accepted is what is different.
Archaea
11/7/19 4:26pm
Do you mean different from BYU, or generally everywhere?
Y05
11/7/19 4:42pm
Much different than BYU. You haven't seen grade whoring until
Archaea
11/7/19 4:48pm
Sure. But does acceptance rate = anything more than a popularity contest?
StalwartBraveTrue
11/7/19 4:53pm
Do you know what the major difference I find between Cornell and BYU is?
Archaea
11/7/19 4:30pm
Funny, my mother-in-law teaches at BYU and
kos
11/7/19 4:59pm
Probably generational
ReyOso
11/8/19 7:03am
Im guessing that is a lot of it, it is much smaller
byu1
11/7/19 10:24am
Cornell has 15,000 undergraduates and about 5000 to 6000 graduate
Archaea
11/7/19 4:13pm
ACT: BYU vs Stanford
Jeb
11/7/19 10:01am
you realize that Stanford isn't a lower tier Ivy league school, right?
byu1
11/7/19 10:25am
You're right. It's superior to most Ivy league schools
5150
11/8/19 5:46am
Quality of education relative to tuition
SCSLC81
11/6/19 6:11pm
Easy to get confused though
puntersarepeople
11/6/19 6:51pm
And how do you assess quality of education?
Mises
11/7/19 2:48pm
Totally agree. Also, if you base it off research, usually
The Llama
11/7/19 6:45pm
Funny comment.
StalwartBraveTrue
11/7/19 8:06pm
Meh. Since when is that a real thing?
lilpenny
11/6/19 7:05pm
RE: Meh. Since when is that a real thing?
puntersarepeople
11/6/19 8:10pm
That's only because BYU is so cheap for LDS kids
reddead
11/7/19 8:52am
For undergraduate? Sure
Colorado
11/6/19 5:12pm
The students that come to BYU (GPA/SAT/ACT scores) do not mean the the University is better, it means the student body
TheLoneCougar
11/6/19 5:50pm
BYU's GPA/SAT/ACT scores are driven up by the number of mormon kids who
NotTokolosh
11/6/19 6:13pm
Including other measures BYU ranks higher, according to sites like USNews
bluebrotha
11/7/19 8:51am
What other measures does US News say BYU outranks Utah in that aren't primarily
Scratch
11/7/19 9:00am
Gee, read all about their multiple factors criteria here:
bluebrotha
11/7/19 11:50am
I understand that. Where does US News say how the schools fared compared to
Scratch
11/7/19 11:51am
I’m not sure. I just know that according to them, when including all categories,
bluebrotha
11/7/19 11:57am
I thought my undergrad at BYU was just as tough as my masters at Northwestern
Fui Invested
11/6/19 6:23pm
Interesting, not my experience.
lilpenny
11/6/19 7:10pm
I am more in this camp.
Cougstreak
11/7/19 5:49am
I was at the top of my class for my Masters,Bro was top of his for Dental school
byu1
11/7/19 10:28am
Definitely depends on the program. Utah has some great engineering
The Llama
11/7/19 1:23pm
Everyone has different experiences
bluelands
11/7/19 1:33pm
Same with law school. I felt well prepared after BYU.
Freeloader
11/6/19 7:25pm
In general curriculum across the board is going to be similarly difficult
Sweetness
11/6/19 10:30pm
Does Harvard teach accounting? I didn't think it had an accounting program.
Archaea
11/7/19 4:26pm
This may be true for most of those that identify as "Mormon", but.......
Doc Buff
11/6/19 7:04pm
For quality of education? No cigar
puntersarepeople
11/6/19 8:13pm
This totally depends on what you're studying
ReyOso
11/6/19 7:20pm
Top 5 feeder to HBS according to a friend of mine
The Llama
11/6/19 7:29pm
No one disputes the quality of undergradstudents, which is why so many are place
Scratch
11/6/19 7:38pm
So how would you like to determine if a school provides a great education?
GigantorCat
11/6/19 9:17pm
Those are all primarily student-driven. Metrics that look at the quality of the
Scratch
11/6/19 9:27pm
But if the average graduate of a university is seen as superior the degree from that institution is more valued.
mvtoro
11/7/19 1:33am
Not really. It just means that there will be more 9s (to use your example)
Scratch
11/7/19 7:29am
There may be some examples of admissions officers who look at class rank over individual ability like you pointed out
mvtoro
11/7/19 10:14am
They are both good schools, but for BYU and Utah alumni to act
Archaea
11/7/19 10:57am
By the way, here’s an analysis that puts BYU at no. 17 a few years ago.
Scratch
11/6/19 7:45pm
A few years ago? It's closer to a decade old than being a few. lol 2012 estimate
GigantorCat
11/6/19 9:21pm
Just leave the BYU board. Just leave. If Utah is so great, WHY are you here?
bluebrotha
11/7/19 8:54am
Because this board talks more about Utah than most other boards out there.
Scratch
11/7/19 8:59am
pretty good, ahead of Northwestern, UVA, Mich, Cambridge, UCLA, Oxford, Carnegie
byu1
11/7/19 10:36am
Very true. We've been on many visits to each school to find talent
Coug Dude
11/6/19 7:37pm
BYU is no where close to any of the Ivys...but
tmurphey44
11/6/19 8:35pm
BYU is ranked 692 in global universities in the latest U.S. News
UNHuskerCoug
11/6/19 8:42pm
US News has BYU at 77 and Utah at 104 in national rankings.
canofpicante
11/6/19 9:16pm
Links if you need them:
canofpicante
11/6/19 9:20pm
RE: US News has BYU at 77 and Utah at 104 in national rankings.
SCSLC81
11/6/19 9:21pm
Forbes is undergrad. Us news is the entire university.
canofpicante
11/6/19 10:10pm
Except it isn't. It expicitly says the opposite, as do US News' listed criteria
Scratch
11/7/19 11:01am
It does not say anywhere that only undergrad is considered. SHOW ME.
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:21am
LOL, Awesome. No, that link is just for undergraduate TEACHING. Note that it
Scratch
11/7/19 11:40am
Holy. Read the heading. It is for undergrad instruction, not for teachers.
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:47am
Dude, the heading says "Undergraduate Teaching." It also only lists 95 schools.
Scratch
11/7/19 11:57am
Those are undergrad. Everything that ranks overall universities has the U higher
Scratch
11/6/19 9:22pm
Read. US News Specifically says they’re considering grad programs.
canofpicante
11/6/19 10:17pm
Where does it say that? And it wouldn't make sense considering US News has
Scratch
11/6/19 10:50pm
You’re not great at reading are you? Go to the link.
canofpicante
11/7/19 10:46am
RE: You’re not great at reading are you? Go to the link.
Scratch
11/7/19 10:59am
Exactly. BYU and Utah are in the same group: National Universities.
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:10am
In case you missed it where I posted it elsewhere and because you keep asking:
Scratch
11/7/19 11:42am
They have an undergrad ranking.
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:19am
RE: They have an undergrad ranking.
Scratch
11/7/19 11:41am
It says on there it is rating undergrad and post grad. Sorry to rain on your
pappabear246
11/6/19 11:14pm
So where does it say that? Because on the methodology page for those rankings
Scratch
11/6/19 11:27pm
Read the whole methodology page, not just you favorite parts.
canofpicante
11/7/19 10:47am
LOL, you're way off here. The section you quote only deals with how they group
Scratch
11/7/19 10:59am
US NEWS has an undergrad ranking. National university rank is the whole school.
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:13am
No, it never says it weighs grad programs, it just says that category of schools
Scratch
11/7/19 11:37am
Of course the are considering undergrad...
canofpicante
11/7/19 11:57am
I just did. They said it in their heading. They say it in their criteria. They
Scratch
11/7/19 12:00pm
US News is the most commonly used ranking. According to them, BYU is
DoseOfReality
11/7/19 9:05am
"Most commonly used ranking"
NYCUte
11/7/19 12:40pm
Most commonly cited by this crowd because it usually ranks BYU highest..
DoseOfReality
11/8/19 8:25am
RE: BYU is ranked 692 in global universities in the latest U.S. News
SCSLC81
11/6/19 9:17pm
Ie, “the post that most supports my opinion”
mvtoro
11/7/19 1:52am
All of this is based upon BYU choices
Shovel jockey
11/6/19 8:49pm
RE: All of this is based upon BYU choices
SCSLC81
11/6/19 9:12pm
As a person who has founded medical schools I disagree completely with you
Shovel jockey
11/6/19 9:24pm
RE: As a person who has founded medical schools I disagree completely with you
SCSLC81
11/6/19 9:56pm
If that was the impression than I apologize.
Shovel jockey
11/7/19 11:25am
Where did you get that Shovel Jockey was implying that Provo would not be
FanofBYU
11/7/19 2:01pm
Were they all in the Caribbean?
kos
11/7/19 8:31am
Lol. Nope all in the states.
Shovel jockey
11/7/19 8:35am
Did I hear a Vandy in there?
Big McLargeHuge
11/6/19 9:02pm
Lolzzz. This reminds me...
DocPimp
11/6/19 9:21pm
I don’t think he knows what “demonstrably” means.
Scratch
11/6/19 9:32pm
Higher ACT does not define a superior institution
Modiolus
11/7/19 5:15am
Neither does a lot of other things here. They are not really comparable
Colorado
11/7/19 5:50am
Ivy League schools kinda cheat on their undergrad stats.
frontrowcougar
11/7/19 7:04am
That's also true of the top students at Utah, generally.
kos
11/7/19 8:32am
Not even close. The top 1500-2000 students of BYUs
valleus
11/7/19 3:28pm
Fair point. I suppose I meant that the top students at Utah were of the same
kos
11/7/19 4:07pm
I agree there.
valleus
11/7/19 4:40pm
Not nearly so easy
djetal
11/7/19 8:45am
THIS is a reasonable take.
DocPimp
11/7/19 10:00am
Perfectly said.
NYCUte
11/7/19 12:28pm
Ding, ding, ding. Winner
FanofBYU
11/7/19 2:03pm
4 words: academic freedom and research
Cougar Spankx
11/7/19 12:55pm
Depends on what you’re studying. There is a whole lot of money at Utah.
idkwhatiexpected
11/7/19 3:29pm
Ridiculous to judge the quality of a school by the intelligence of the students
Plato
11/7/19 3:42pm
RE: Guys, this isn’t hard. BYU is demonstrably a better school than Utah. It’s
JustmeintheSLC
11/7/19 3:48pm
Not sure you meant to say it but it sounds like you are saying all Pac 12 schools are AAU members...
Tokolosh
11/7/19 3:50pm
RE: Not sure you meant to say it but it sounds like you are saying all Pac 12
JustmeintheSLC
11/7/19 3:54pm
A good measure of worth is Return on Investment of the degree - BYU ROI $595,000
Jasbo
11/7/19 6:21pm
So how is it calculated? BYU grads should make more becase, on average, they
Scratch
11/7/19 6:32pm
This is such a dumb take for obvious reasons.
DocPimp
11/8/19 6:27am
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