Totally agree. Also, if you base it off research, usually

Nov 7, 2019
6:45:58pm

The Llama Redshirt Freshman

Those professors are so focused on publishing that they tend to think of teaching as secondary. They might be brilliant, but their priorities are elsewhere.

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The Llama

Previous username: SportsCalc
Bio page: The Llama
Joined: Aug 29, 2012
Last login: May 16, 2020
Total posts: 226 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Guys, this isn’t hard. BYU is demonstrably a better school than Utah. It’s not

TriggerWarning

11/6/19 4:16pm

On your second one it is true depending on context

puntersarepeople

11/6/19 4:27pm

and if talking about lower level Ivy schools, it isn't that far off

byu1

11/6/19 4:59pm

Not really. Cornell is waaaay more difficult to get into than BYU

jkccoug

11/6/19 8:57pm

RE: Not really. Cornell is waaaay more difficult to get into than BYU

WhyaskY?

11/6/19 9:11pm

Is that because Cornell's capacity is much smaller than BYU, or is there

Y05

11/7/19 2:50am

The 25th percentile ACT at Cornell is the 75th percentile at BYU

jkccoug

11/7/19 7:12am

Plus the acceptance rate is WAY lower. So even if you are in the range of

Scratch

11/7/19 7:18am

Acceptance rate is a false metric.

StalwartBraveTrue

11/7/19 12:18pm

Self-selection. Walk across Cornell

Archaea

11/7/19 4:15pm

That’s what I mean.

StalwartBraveTrue

11/7/19 4:22pm

The competitiveness to get accepted is what is different.

Archaea

11/7/19 4:26pm

Do you mean different from BYU, or generally everywhere?

Y05

11/7/19 4:42pm

Much different than BYU. You haven't seen grade whoring until

Archaea

11/7/19 4:48pm

Sure. But does acceptance rate = anything more than a popularity contest?

StalwartBraveTrue

11/7/19 4:53pm

Do you know what the major difference I find between Cornell and BYU is?

Archaea

11/7/19 4:30pm

Funny, my mother-in-law teaches at BYU and

kos

11/7/19 4:59pm

Probably generational

ReyOso

11/8/19 7:03am

Im guessing that is a lot of it, it is much smaller

byu1

11/7/19 10:24am

Cornell has 15,000 undergraduates and about 5000 to 6000 graduate

Archaea

11/7/19 4:13pm

ACT: BYU vs Stanford

Jeb

11/7/19 10:01am

you realize that Stanford isn't a lower tier Ivy league school, right?

byu1

11/7/19 10:25am

You're right. It's superior to most Ivy league schools

5150

11/8/19 5:46am

Quality of education relative to tuition

SCSLC81

11/6/19 6:11pm

Easy to get confused though

puntersarepeople

11/6/19 6:51pm

And how do you assess quality of education?

Mises

11/7/19 2:48pm

Totally agree. Also, if you base it off research, usually

The Llama

11/7/19 6:45pm

Funny comment.

StalwartBraveTrue

11/7/19 8:06pm

Meh. Since when is that a real thing?

lilpenny

11/6/19 7:05pm

RE: Meh. Since when is that a real thing?

puntersarepeople

11/6/19 8:10pm

That's only because BYU is so cheap for LDS kids

reddead

11/7/19 8:52am

For undergraduate? Sure

Colorado

11/6/19 5:12pm

The students that come to BYU (GPA/SAT/ACT scores) do not mean the the University is better, it means the student body

TheLoneCougar

11/6/19 5:50pm

BYU's GPA/SAT/ACT scores are driven up by the number of mormon kids who

NotTokolosh

11/6/19 6:13pm

Including other measures BYU ranks higher, according to sites like USNews

bluebrotha

11/7/19 8:51am

What other measures does US News say BYU outranks Utah in that aren't primarily

Scratch

11/7/19 9:00am

Gee, read all about their multiple factors criteria here:

bluebrotha

11/7/19 11:50am

I understand that. Where does US News say how the schools fared compared to

Scratch

11/7/19 11:51am

I’m not sure. I just know that according to them, when including all categories,

bluebrotha

11/7/19 11:57am

I thought my undergrad at BYU was just as tough as my masters at Northwestern

Fui Invested

11/6/19 6:23pm

Interesting, not my experience.

lilpenny

11/6/19 7:10pm

I am more in this camp.

Cougstreak

11/7/19 5:49am

I was at the top of my class for my Masters,Bro was top of his for Dental school

byu1

11/7/19 10:28am

Definitely depends on the program. Utah has some great engineering

The Llama

11/7/19 1:23pm

Everyone has different experiences

bluelands

11/7/19 1:33pm

Same with law school. I felt well prepared after BYU.

Freeloader

11/6/19 7:25pm

In general curriculum across the board is going to be similarly difficult

Sweetness

11/6/19 10:30pm

Does Harvard teach accounting? I didn't think it had an accounting program.

Archaea

11/7/19 4:26pm

This may be true for most of those that identify as "Mormon", but.......

Doc Buff

11/6/19 7:04pm

For quality of education? No cigar

puntersarepeople

11/6/19 8:13pm

This totally depends on what you're studying

ReyOso

11/6/19 7:20pm

Top 5 feeder to HBS according to a friend of mine

The Llama

11/6/19 7:29pm

No one disputes the quality of undergradstudents, which is why so many are place

Scratch

11/6/19 7:38pm

So how would you like to determine if a school provides a great education?

GigantorCat

11/6/19 9:17pm

Those are all primarily student-driven. Metrics that look at the quality of the

Scratch

11/6/19 9:27pm

But if the average graduate of a university is seen as superior the degree from that institution is more valued.

mvtoro

11/7/19 1:33am

Not really. It just means that there will be more 9s (to use your example)

Scratch

11/7/19 7:29am

There may be some examples of admissions officers who look at class rank over individual ability like you pointed out

mvtoro

11/7/19 10:14am

They are both good schools, but for BYU and Utah alumni to act

Archaea

11/7/19 10:57am

By the way, here’s an analysis that puts BYU at no. 17 a few years ago.

Scratch

11/6/19 7:45pm

A few years ago? It's closer to a decade old than being a few. lol 2012 estimate

GigantorCat

11/6/19 9:21pm

Just leave the BYU board. Just leave. If Utah is so great, WHY are you here?

bluebrotha

11/7/19 8:54am

Because this board talks more about Utah than most other boards out there.

Scratch

11/7/19 8:59am

pretty good, ahead of Northwestern, UVA, Mich, Cambridge, UCLA, Oxford, Carnegie

byu1

11/7/19 10:36am

Very true. We've been on many visits to each school to find talent

Coug Dude

11/6/19 7:37pm

BYU is no where close to any of the Ivys...but

tmurphey44

11/6/19 8:35pm

BYU is ranked 692 in global universities in the latest U.S. News

UNHuskerCoug

11/6/19 8:42pm

US News has BYU at 77 and Utah at 104 in national rankings.

canofpicante

11/6/19 9:16pm

Links if you need them:

canofpicante

11/6/19 9:20pm

RE: US News has BYU at 77 and Utah at 104 in national rankings.

SCSLC81

11/6/19 9:21pm

Forbes is undergrad. Us news is the entire university.

canofpicante

11/6/19 10:10pm

Except it isn't. It expicitly says the opposite, as do US News' listed criteria

Scratch

11/7/19 11:01am

It does not say anywhere that only undergrad is considered. SHOW ME.

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:21am

LOL, Awesome. No, that link is just for undergraduate TEACHING. Note that it

Scratch

11/7/19 11:40am

Holy. Read the heading. It is for undergrad instruction, not for teachers.

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:47am

Dude, the heading says "Undergraduate Teaching." It also only lists 95 schools.

Scratch

11/7/19 11:57am

Those are undergrad. Everything that ranks overall universities has the U higher

Scratch

11/6/19 9:22pm

Read. US News Specifically says they’re considering grad programs.

canofpicante

11/6/19 10:17pm

Where does it say that? And it wouldn't make sense considering US News has

Scratch

11/6/19 10:50pm

You’re not great at reading are you? Go to the link.

canofpicante

11/7/19 10:46am

RE: You’re not great at reading are you? Go to the link.

Scratch

11/7/19 10:59am

Exactly. BYU and Utah are in the same group: National Universities.

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:10am

In case you missed it where I posted it elsewhere and because you keep asking:

Scratch

11/7/19 11:42am

They have an undergrad ranking.

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:19am

RE: They have an undergrad ranking.

Scratch

11/7/19 11:41am

It says on there it is rating undergrad and post grad. Sorry to rain on your

pappabear246

11/6/19 11:14pm

So where does it say that? Because on the methodology page for those rankings

Scratch

11/6/19 11:27pm

Read the whole methodology page, not just you favorite parts.

canofpicante

11/7/19 10:47am

LOL, you're way off here. The section you quote only deals with how they group

Scratch

11/7/19 10:59am

US NEWS has an undergrad ranking. National university rank is the whole school.

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:13am

No, it never says it weighs grad programs, it just says that category of schools

Scratch

11/7/19 11:37am

Of course the are considering undergrad...

canofpicante

11/7/19 11:57am

I just did. They said it in their heading. They say it in their criteria. They

Scratch

11/7/19 12:00pm

US News is the most commonly used ranking. According to them, BYU is

DoseOfReality

11/7/19 9:05am

"Most commonly used ranking"

NYCUte

11/7/19 12:40pm

Most commonly cited by this crowd because it usually ranks BYU highest..

DoseOfReality

11/8/19 8:25am

RE: BYU is ranked 692 in global universities in the latest U.S. News

SCSLC81

11/6/19 9:17pm

Ie, “the post that most supports my opinion”

mvtoro

11/7/19 1:52am

All of this is based upon BYU choices

Shovel jockey

11/6/19 8:49pm

RE: All of this is based upon BYU choices

SCSLC81

11/6/19 9:12pm

As a person who has founded medical schools I disagree completely with you

Shovel jockey

11/6/19 9:24pm

RE: As a person who has founded medical schools I disagree completely with you

SCSLC81

11/6/19 9:56pm

If that was the impression than I apologize.

Shovel jockey

11/7/19 11:25am

Where did you get that Shovel Jockey was implying that Provo would not be

FanofBYU

11/7/19 2:01pm

Were they all in the Caribbean?

kos

11/7/19 8:31am

Lol. Nope all in the states.

Shovel jockey

11/7/19 8:35am

Did I hear a Vandy in there?

Big McLargeHuge

11/6/19 9:02pm

Lolzzz. This reminds me...

DocPimp

11/6/19 9:21pm

I don’t think he knows what “demonstrably” means.

Scratch

11/6/19 9:32pm

Higher ACT does not define a superior institution

Modiolus

11/7/19 5:15am

Neither does a lot of other things here. They are not really comparable

Colorado

11/7/19 5:50am

Ivy League schools kinda cheat on their undergrad stats.

frontrowcougar

11/7/19 7:04am

That's also true of the top students at Utah, generally.

kos

11/7/19 8:32am

Not even close. The top 1500-2000 students of BYUs

valleus

11/7/19 3:28pm

Fair point. I suppose I meant that the top students at Utah were of the same

kos

11/7/19 4:07pm

I agree there.

valleus

11/7/19 4:40pm

Not nearly so easy

djetal

11/7/19 8:45am

THIS is a reasonable take.

DocPimp

11/7/19 10:00am

Perfectly said.

NYCUte

11/7/19 12:28pm

Ding, ding, ding. Winner

FanofBYU

11/7/19 2:03pm

4 words: academic freedom and research

Cougar Spankx

11/7/19 12:55pm

Depends on what you’re studying. There is a whole lot of money at Utah.

idkwhatiexpected

11/7/19 3:29pm

Ridiculous to judge the quality of a school by the intelligence of the students

Plato

11/7/19 3:42pm

RE: Guys, this isn’t hard. BYU is demonstrably a better school than Utah. It’s

JustmeintheSLC

11/7/19 3:48pm

Not sure you meant to say it but it sounds like you are saying all Pac 12 schools are AAU members...

Tokolosh

11/7/19 3:50pm

RE: Not sure you meant to say it but it sounds like you are saying all Pac 12

JustmeintheSLC

11/7/19 3:54pm

A good measure of worth is Return on Investment of the degree - BYU ROI $595,000

Jasbo

11/7/19 6:21pm

So how is it calculated? BYU grads should make more becase, on average, they

Scratch

11/7/19 6:32pm

This is such a dumb take for obvious reasons.

DocPimp

11/8/19 6:27am

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