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Mar 28, 2024
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arizonacougarfan
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arizonacougarfan
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midlandcoug
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arizonacougarfan
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May 6, 2016
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May 23, 2024
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6,790 (12 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Who are the top 5 players of all time? IMO: Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, Gehrig
arizonacougarfan
Mar 28, 11:05am
Pete Rose has to be on that list!!
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 11:07am
I assume you're kidding.
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:10am
Not even a little bit!
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 11:14am
Sorry, that's totally insane. Rose had almost no positional/defensive value
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:25am
Yeah, he wasn’t even good enough to get into the Hall of Fame!!!
Nittany Cougar
Mar 28, 11:34am
The idea that the all-time hits leader isn't top 100 tells me
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 12:41pm
The idea that you think number of singles can establish greatness tells me all
Scratch
Mar 28, 12:42pm
I'm somewhere in the middle of this.
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 12:53pm
Certainly more reasonable than not being in someone's top 100!!
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 1:26pm
One thing I'll give Scratch - I don't think he has a top 100 peak
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 1:32pm
He may be top-100 all-time. It's tough to just kind of make a call like that
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:36pm
Where do you rank Tony Gwynn?
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 1:39pm
Off the top of my head probably just a little behind Rose.
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:43pm
Here ya go. Maybe this will help.
AzCugrFan
Mar 28, 1:06pm
Great. Almost all of those have to do with longevity and reinforce my point
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:11pm
Which is why MVPs and Cy Young awards should factor in. Bonds and Clemens had 7.
dYrtbYkerYder
Mar 28, 1:39pm
And by the way, the two years he won the gold glove he had a negative defensive
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:13pm
The argument against him.
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 1:21pm
And that's during his peak. He had many years where he was playing to chase the
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:42pm
Right. If you put the cutoff line at 1981 (last year with 100+ OPS+)
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 1:55pm
Spot on. Good analysis and a good comp, with Brett being a bit better hitter
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:59pm
He hung on way too long to get that record.
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 1:01pm
Nah
BYU Statsman
Mar 28, 11:26am
Barry Bonds > Hank Aaron
YIsForBrigham
Mar 28, 11:07am
Roids
arizonacougarfan
Mar 28, 12:18pm
Without looking at yours: Mays, Ruth, Gibson, Cobb, Bonds
BaseCoug
Mar 28, 11:08am
Has to include Ruth, Bonds, Mays, and Cobb. #5 is really hard. Wagner?
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:13am
I think you gotta have a pitcher. Walter Johnson dominated his era more than anyone else. I think Walter or Rocket have
shimmy
Mar 28, 11:32am
But, as a general rule, the top position players are more valuable than pitchers
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:39am
Betts, Ohtani, Freeman, Smith, Muncy
StantonMac
Mar 28, 11:19am
Williams was much better than Aaron. Especially since he had to join WW2 and
marinact
Mar 28, 11:22am
No one in the last 50 years?
PHXSUNS31
Mar 28, 11:23am
Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, A-Rod, Palmeiro
STL
Mar 28, 11:23am
RE: Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, A-Rod, Palmeiro
txblue
Mar 28, 11:25am
Nolan Ryan has to be on the list
Skeptical Optimist
Mar 28, 11:27am
I'd take Clemens over Ryan.
dYrtbYkerYder
Mar 28, 11:28am
Hmm. Clemens was on better teams, but still, he might get the edge.
txblue
Mar 28, 11:32am
There's no way to argue Nolan over Clemens (except roids, I guess). And I hate
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:35am
I agree, but I don't think the edge is all that much.
txblue
Mar 28, 11:38am
It is. Nolan was a below-average pitcher for about 1/3 of his career.
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:41am
Not my impression, but I'll take your word for it. Not going to research
txblue
Mar 28, 1:13pm
Just looking at seasonal ERA+ to draw that conclusion.
Scratch
Mar 28, 1:22pm
How did you determine 1/3?
Bullrider
Mar 28, 9:01pm
I counted the number of seasons where his ERA+ was under 100. 100 is league
Scratch
Mar 30, 12:02pm
Clemens ERA+ of 143. Ryan ERA+ of 112.
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:35am
7 No Hitters vs 0
Skeptical Optimist
Mar 28, 11:36am
Yep, which is an almost meaningless number when evaluating all-time greatness
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:43am
I will submit this as my final piece of evidence and then bow out of this
Skeptical Optimist
Mar 28, 12:16pm
One of the best moments in MLB history.
Scratch
Mar 28, 12:30pm
Roids
arizonacougarfan
Mar 28, 12:17pm
I don’t see any caveats here, so Walter Johnson and Cy Young have to be included
Nittany Cougar
Mar 28, 11:27am
It's so hard to compare pitchers from that era. But it's hard to omit Walter
Scratch
Mar 28, 11:32am
Bonds, Ruth, Aaron, A-Rod, Clemens
dYrtbYkerYder
Mar 28, 11:28am
Bonds, Ruth, Mays, Walter Johnson, Cobb.
shimmy
Mar 28, 11:30am
Bonds has 7 MVPs. Clemens has 7 Cy Young Awards. Start there.
dYrtbYkerYder
Mar 28, 11:30am
💉
arizonacougarfan
Mar 28, 12:38pm
We get it. Bonds is still the greatest hitter ever by a wide margin.
dYrtbYkerYder
Mar 28, 1:40pm
I just want to give a shout out to Stan Musial and Ted Williams...
So it goes...
Mar 28, 11:36am
Ruth, Mays, Bonds, Cobb, Williams
dwhitebud
Mar 28, 11:38am
Don’t forget Negro League Players Josh Gibson, Satchel Paige, Oscar Charleston
RJCOD
Mar 28, 11:45am
I feel Ted Williams was the best ever. He gave five years in the prime of
Bullrider
Mar 28, 12:38pm
It was 3 years to the military and he hit .400 before
PHXSUNS31
Mar 28, 12:41pm
Remember he also served 2 years in the Korean War, total 5 years. It does
Bullrider
Mar 28, 8:53pm
I did not realize that…that makes sense why he barely played in 52/53 then
PHXSUNS31
Mar 28, 9:09pm
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