If the P5 really wanted BYU in their club, we'd be in already

Aug 3, 2020
8:30:54am

CommodoreCoug Intervention Needed

There's nothing magical about forming a new division that will make the P5 want to include BYU when they haven't up to this point.

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CommodoreCoug

Previous username: jbcoug
Bio page: CommodoreCoug
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
Last login: May 18, 2024
Total posts: 31,719 (5,793 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

They couldn’t exclude BYU, and they wouldn’t want to.

All-American

8/2/20 7:43pm

How does that differ with the other independents? Or does it?

MwangoleCoug9

8/2/20 7:46pm

What line can you draw that includes ND and a low-level P5 but excludes BYU?

All-American

8/2/20 7:59pm

Conference affiliation. ND would be a part of the ACC.

YIsForBrigham

8/2/20 8:00pm

ND?

All-American

8/2/20 8:01pm

ND has a standing invite from ACC. BYU does not.

Linescratcher

8/2/20 9:14pm

Why does ND have to accept the invite? They aren’t making them.

All-American

8/2/20 9:27pm

The issue is you’re conflating ND’s status and an Indy w/ BYUs. They’re not same

Linescratcher

8/2/20 9:36pm

Try me.

All-American

8/2/20 9:47pm

Criteria is P5 + ND. That’s it. Doesn’t violate antitrust

Linescratcher

8/3/20 5:18am

Why do you think that would not raise antitrust issues?

All-American

8/3/20 7:16am

first off, you have the burden of proving the antitrust argument

Linescratcher

8/3/20 7:38am

Two big problems with your argument, including the burden-shifting bit.

All-American

8/3/20 7:57am

i'm talking about *your* burden shifting.You haven't explained why its antitrust

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:27am

I don't have a burden on Cougarboard. I asked you why you think what you do.

All-American

8/3/20 8:37am

traditionally, in any sort of rhetorical debate

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:49am

Oh, geez, you lost me in the first line. Didn't bother reading the rest.

All-American

8/3/20 9:05am

I mean, every one of the P5 has the opportunity to invite us right now. The Big12 or pac12 could probably invite us and

YIsForBrigham

8/2/20 7:56pm

They aren’t inviting us to join the conference. But they’ll still play us.

All-American

8/2/20 8:12pm

Sure but this hypothetical break away would be an actual contractual affiliation. Not just games. BYU is only going to

YIsForBrigham

8/2/20 8:21pm

Why?

All-American

8/2/20 8:25pm

So wouldn’t that be true of every school in the nation with a FB team?

Traveshamockery

8/2/20 7:56pm

No. You can set standards for inclusion. But BYU would meet them.

All-American

8/2/20 8:00pm

What if one of the standards was “not a Mormon school” or “cannot exclude people

Gerald-DeGroot

8/2/20 8:09pm

That line would pay for the tuition of many lawyers’ children.

All-American

8/2/20 8:14pm

What if the standard is LGBTQ inclusive?

ReyOso

8/2/20 8:21pm

Then Baylor is out

Blue Mountains

8/2/20 10:50pm

And Notre Dame.

Benfica1

8/3/20 8:40am

Unless you do conference affiliation. ND joins ACC to be included, and everyone

MwangoleCoug9

8/2/20 8:23pm

A. Antitrust. Don’t think you COULD do that. B. Purpose. Why would you?

All-American

8/2/20 8:26pm

I hate to say it but BYU doesn’t register a blip on any P5 conference radar

NorCal_Coug

8/2/20 8:31pm

Get over your self-loathing and look at the facts.

All-American

8/2/20 8:43pm

Yes, look at the facts... they’ve never been inclusive of BYU.

NorCal_Coug

8/2/20 8:55pm

Sure they have.

All-American

8/2/20 9:00pm

You’ve got a moral argument for BYU. Not an antitrust argument.

Linescratcher

8/2/20 9:12pm

I have a moral, antitrust, and economic argument.

All-American

8/2/20 9:52pm

LOL, 👌

NorCal_Coug

8/2/20 11:13pm

The way we've played lately there's no way BYU makes a 30-team cut.

BleedCougarBlue2

8/3/20 1:46pm

You could say the same about a bunch of P5 schools

SUAVO

8/3/20 1:52pm

Very true. I take comfort in the fact that nobody seems to want to do that. Yet.

All-American

8/3/20 2:01pm

Many teams currently in the P5...

trigg3r

8/2/20 8:39pm

I don’t think antitrust principles would benefit/protect BYU in that scenario

Linescratcher

8/2/20 8:44pm

They won’t need to as long as we haven’t withered on the vine in the meantime.

All-American

8/2/20 8:49pm

you’d have to argue that the current P5 exclusion of BYU violates antitrust

Linescratcher

8/2/20 8:55pm

Huge difference between exclusion from conference versus the entire league.

All-American

8/2/20 9:01pm

Right now, BYU is excluded from P5. Nd is not

Linescratcher

8/2/20 9:11pm

If the Big 5 conferences break from the NCAA to set up their own set

Stalwartbob

8/2/20 9:28pm

Huge difference between exclusion from a conference versus an entire league.

All-American

8/2/20 9:36pm

The B12? League, conference call it what you want.

Stalwartbob

8/2/20 10:00pm

No, the 60+ team league.

All-American

8/2/20 10:05pm

The FBS group of Div. 1 colleges is is an organization that has contracted with

Stalwartbob

8/2/20 10:49pm

I'd love to see your citations on the antitrust law issue, because I'm skeptical

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 6:50am

Start with NCAA v. Oklahoma.

All-American

8/3/20 7:57am

and end with it because that case says nothing about this hypothetical.

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:11am

No, end it because they will want to bring BYU along anyway.

All-American

8/3/20 8:17am

as I've said all along, I agree on that point.

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:30am

If the P5 really wanted BYU in their club, we'd be in already

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 8:30am

I'd disagree with that, slightly

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:36am

But there's a difference between adding BYU to a P5 conference

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 8:42am

maybe, but that's only if they go the route of using current P5 status

Linescratcher

8/3/20 8:53am

Yeah, it's hard for me to envision a scenario

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 10:06am

RE: maybe, but that's only if they go the route of using current P5 status

bluenowandforever

8/3/20 1:10pm

They don’t have ND treatment today...

NorCal_Coug

8/3/20 10:23am

Yes, I'm aware of that...that's the whole point

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 10:41am

The NCAA vs Okla case was about television rights, not one group excluding

Stalwartbob

8/3/20 9:54am

there's really good arguments for why a new division would want BYU

Linescratcher

8/3/20 9:59am

They do protect organizations from forming cartels and excluding participants.

All-American

8/3/20 10:07am

If these teams want to keep tax exempt status, they have to provide a reasonable

Lance71

8/3/20 10:37am

citation for idea that tax exempt status is based on criteria for P5 exclusion?

Linescratcher

8/3/20 11:07am

All tax exempt organizations have to have a basis for inclusion.

Lance71

8/3/20 2:07pm

What tax exempt organization are you referring to?

CommodoreCoug

8/3/20 2:22pm

Where has BYU been barred from admittance because of race or gender?

Stalwartbob

8/3/20 11:26am

The thread is about a hypothetical situation where a group of schools break off

Lance71

8/3/20 2:09pm

Thanks, I see that. My question is has it been denied entry due to

Stalwartbob

8/3/20 3:54pm

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