But it isn't free market anymore. Laws make it difficult or impossible to sell vehicles without going through a dealer.

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Jan 21, 2022
9:12:59am

Tokolosh Truly Addicted User

But it isn't free market anymore. Laws make it difficult or impossible to sell vehicles without going through a dealer.

Tesla has been fighting to get setup for sales in states across the country and have to make customers jump through hoops... including picking up in other states... because of the laws around dealerships. It is a market with huge barriers to entry and is anything but free at this point.

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Tokolosh

Bio page: Tokolosh
Joined: Jun 9, 2004
Last login: Apr 25, 2024
Total posts: 60,411 (5,636 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Car dealerships are crooks. This topic reminded me of a post I made a few years ago:

Ragnar Danneskjold $4,000,000 never forget

1/21/22 8:54am

The worst is they sell it as "you can just roll it into your payment"

crack

1/21/22 8:58am

For real - edge guards: pay more to have your Civic Type R look worse

COUGND

1/21/22 8:58am

Everything on there is a head-scratcher.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 8:59am

"Lo-Jack" is a huge neon sign that translates into auto-speak as "Do Not Buy From Here."

Bert609

1/21/22 9:00am

I was looking at car that had onStar. The dealer also installed their own GPS thingy. I asked what their package did

Beest

1/21/22 10:45am

Interesting that so many of those ad-ons are all 395.00…

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:03am

Cargo net installed for $395? I’d love to have that hourly rate.

ponys

1/21/22 9:33am

Believe me, the guys putting it in aren't getting that money.

John Doe

1/21/22 9:51am

Is this where the Tesla model departs from the dealership model?

MarylandFan

1/21/22 9:07am

Yes when you visit their “dealership” and even test drive the employees there

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:14am

Wait a minute, when you visit Tesla, the employees actually know the features? That's a novel concept.

Bert609

1/21/22 9:20am

Haha, yes! That is a funny and ironic thing.

MarylandFan

1/21/22 9:25am

We can’t have caveat emptor and expect them to be nice.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:09am

But it isn't free market anymore. Laws make it difficult or impossible to sell vehicles without going through a dealer.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:12am

And laws are in place to prevent others from owning a dealership. It's a pseudo-controlled monopoly.

Bert609

1/21/22 9:17am

Which really isn’t what the OP is complaining about

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:27am

They couldn’t in Utah for years because the dealers tried to block them

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:18am

Two different problems.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:25am

Two inter-related problems in this case.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:27am

Which is why the laws of our current system (at least in Utah) have changed in the past 2 years. It's much better now,

Bert609

1/21/22 9:28am

I agree. However, it isn’t lack of a free market. This is exactly how the free

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:30am

I'm not arguing the establishment of prices. I'm arguing the establishment of dealers. In Utah, before Tesla, it

Bert609

1/21/22 9:39am

Look if you wanna have a conversation about car dealership laws go ahead.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:42am

It has everything to do with it. Limit competition, limit opportunities to avoid the mark up gimmicks.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:48am

You assume that if you just had more dealerships this wouldn’t happen.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:52am

When you can cross state lines and instantly get $5-10k+ off your quote, you have a Utah problem. Especially since

Bert609

1/21/22 9:53am

If that is the case that means I could have gotten my GMC AT4 for $26k off MSRP if I went to another state.

LyleLanley

1/21/22 10:08am

You are a much better negotiator than me. This past year was enough for me to throw in the towel on the whole thing.

Bert609

1/21/22 10:59am

Last vehicle I purchased was found on the internet. I flew to Portland to buy and drive home. I saved $5k+ over local

SierraCoug

1/21/22 10:10am

I assume that if I have more dealers I'd have a better chance of finding one not engaging in the shenanigans.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:58am

Long way to say, "you're right, it isn't a free market, government screws up

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:29am

Free market means I get to charge two people wildly different prices if I can

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:32am

A free market also means that I could see a person overcharging for their good or service and decide to compete...

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:36am

There are plenty of car dealerships competing

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:37am

Yes, there is competition within this closed system. Why can't I build the Honda I want using the online configurator?

Tokolosh

1/21/22 9:42am

Honda doesn’t want to sell you cars direct. You don’t like that-OK

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:51am

Honda does want to sell direct. Now that the tools exist to make that happen the OEMs do want to change it.

Tokolosh

1/21/22 10:01am

The issue is that it's regulated. It's not a free market. If I want to buy directly from the manufacture I can't. A

HarlemCoug

1/21/22 9:36am

Someone should have a car negotiating service where they’re compensated

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:37am

This actually exists.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:42am

How can you be so wrong? Free market means anyone can sell in the market. No

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:38am

But the part that was being complained about has nothing to do with restrictions

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:40am

The whole point of the post was that manufacturer's are prohibited from selling

jvquarterback

1/21/22 9:47am

No the point was they charge $400 for the same wheel locks they charge $50 for

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:53am

Because they've captured government regulation and excluded their competition.

jvquarterback

1/21/22 10:30am

Free market means I can walk out the door and go elsewhere if I don’t like what

califcougar

1/21/22 9:41am

There is plenty of rivalry and competition for car sales.

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:55am

3 of 7 Honda dealerships in Utah are Ken Garff. Two are Larry Miller but they

califcougar

1/21/22 10:05am

You don't even have to buy in Utah. Buy somewhere else, the market is national

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 11:05am

You can’t buy a new Honda at a non-Honda dealership and Garff and Miller own

califcougar

1/21/22 11:37am

Thanks for pointing out (again) there isn't a free market in Utah.

jvquarterback

1/21/22 11:46am

I'm sure many elderly people have bought cars complete unaware of the 1,000% markup. That's why I consider them crooks.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:16am

I am sure that’s true. But that’s the system we have. Willing seller, willing

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:28am

Talking advantage of uninformed buyers because they can and nothing to stop them

franklyvulgar

1/21/22 9:32am

Yeah, if your grandma went to jiffy lube and they told her an oil change was $900, and she went along with it, I bet you

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:38am

Dishonest yes; crooks no

Socrates Johnson

1/21/22 9:54am

It's the same thing.

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:59am

When you enter the dealership you are challenging practiced warriors to battle.

Ripliancum

1/21/22 9:20am

I can understand things that are wired into the car. the alarm, low jack etc....

crimedog

1/21/22 9:32am

On the Low-Jack, they'll give you a spiel about how they install it on all their vehicles for "insurance" when they get

Bert609

1/21/22 10:05am

here's my story on dealers trying to slip in costly add ons without me knowing about it

byujag

1/21/22 9:37am

They tried that with the vin-etching thing with me. Had an agreed-upon OTD price, and when the car finally arrived they

Ragnar Danneskjold

1/21/22 9:41am

This is how you Alpha.

Q-grr

1/21/22 11:56am

I didn't even know wheel locks were a thing until I had to force them off my own

ochobeeguy

1/21/22 9:53am

How can you tell when a car salesman is lying?

85fan

1/21/22 10:37am

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