The overwhelming majority of people, pro- and anti-vax, aren't capable

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Jan 11, 2017
12:42:07pm

stonewallperry All-American

The overwhelming majority of people, pro- and anti-vax, aren't capable

of understanding the actual scientific articles.

If we could all understand everything we needed to know just from reading the primary literature, we wouldn't need doctors, or really anyone in any area, to help us know what to do based on scientific research.

I guess the the idea that we might actual need medical professionals is something the anti-vax crowd sometimes pushes back against...

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stonewallperry

New username: SWP
Bio page: stonewallperry
Joined: May 28, 2004
Last login: Apr 13, 2017
Total posts: 0 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

oh man.

riboflavin

1/10/17 12:14pm

RE: oh man.

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:18pm

Those people are despicable.

1/10/17 12:20pm

Couldn't agree more about anti-vaxxers

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:21pm

you're right lets hate/ridicule people that think differently than us.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:24pm

It's more about ridiculing stupid people

OneUpper

1/10/17 12:29pm

While it's thinking differently, there is OVERWHELMING evidence to support

RyneK

1/10/17 12:29pm

The world was a much better place with Polio.

PharmD

1/10/17 12:31pm

at the risk of being crucified on CB, as well as starting a huge argument

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:38pm

Didn't the vaccine autism guy confess that he falsified his research?

OneUpper

1/10/17 12:41pm

Yep

jaromp

1/10/17 12:46pm

oh was the article I posted written by Andrew Wakefield?

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:58pm

Some dude's blog is definitely not worth my time.

OneUpper

1/10/17 12:59pm

ahhh . gotcha. ok then. Believe whatever you choose to believe.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:01pm

I'm happy to learn things from peer-reviewed academic journals. I don't care

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:03pm

A blog is not the place to learn about that kind of stuff.

PharmD

1/10/17 1:04pm

interesting, so the place someone voices their thoughts make them invalid?

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:14pm

Well, in this case, the content really helps make it invalid.

DapperDan

1/10/17 1:16pm

good so you read it!?

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:21pm

Yes. He's an angry father desperate for someone to blame is very bad at

DapperDan

1/10/17 1:48pm

Boom

El Fuego

1/10/17 1:50pm

Seriously. The guy demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of how scientific studies work and what they are used

jaromp

1/10/17 2:04pm

I think you don't know what quotation marks mean when you're quoting someone...

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 2:28pm

Here is the trouble with conducting a study like he suggests

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 12:52am

totally. that could be an issue. doesnt mean it is.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 2:50pm

In his case, it's exactly what it seems to be.

DapperDan

1/10/17 3:10pm

Agreed, but he loses validity when he is hypocritical in his approach.

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 12:57am

Just because you have thoughts doesn't make them valid

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:17pm

Has it occurred to you that this is not a new topic for many of us and that we

Byron McNertney

1/10/17 1:13pm

haha. whats so amazing is your clear desire to not want to read someone else's

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:16pm

Not sure if trolling or just doubling down

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:18pm

I thought it was a sincere point..

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:22pm

Doubling down then

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:24pm

Or maybe it's just a proper application of the GIGO principle

Yoshinobu

1/10/17 1:24pm

lol. anti-vaxxer condescendingly telling others to believe what they want to believe without getting educated. Now you

byuTX

1/10/17 1:31pm

Andrew Wakefield's study is what the whole Autism - vaccine connection is based on, so...

jaromp

1/10/17 1:02pm

is it though?

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:23pm

Uh, yeah, he even mentions it in that blog post you posted

jaromp

1/10/17 2:13pm

Good question. Is there any significant evidence that prior to Wakefield

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:02am

The flat earth people are fighting this guy for the right to be more wrong

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:41pm

I honestly only care about one thing. Are less people dying?

RyneK

1/10/17 12:42pm

I agree. Vaccinations are good in general

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:49pm

If those potential people could opt out, then whatever, but the problem is you

RyneK

1/10/17 12:51pm

I think if you choose to not vaccinate your kids you also understand that if

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:00pm

Actually if you choose not to vaccinate your kid you are so oblivious to the

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:02pm

But people don't follow it, as has been shown by the recent measles outbreaks

DapperDan

1/10/17 1:03pm

We're not talking about the common cold or even the slightly less common flu.

RyneK

1/10/17 1:11pm

you're absolutely right.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:20pm

That's the crazy part - every person is a part of the general population

RyneK

1/10/17 1:25pm

What's happening here is likely confirmation bias

DapperDan

1/10/17 1:29pm

Not to mention the 100 million other things your kid interacts with

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:10am

You generally don't know you are contageous until it is waaaaayyyyyy to late

rmreitz

1/11/17 2:15pm

Or they are looking for an explanation for misfortune and misappropriate blame.

OneUpper

1/10/17 12:52pm

ahhh. or maybe they're looking into something that has some red flags..

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:59pm

I think you need a cookie. You'd prefer almond milk with that, right?

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:00pm

hahah. good one.....

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:02pm

Maybe a nap is in order as well.

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:03pm

sounds like you're really good at prescribing things for people..

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:05pm

Feel better?

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:06pm

Having children with Autism is extremely difficult, and the hardship doesn't really ever end.

jaromp

1/10/17 1:01pm

True. But until there is sufficient evidence to support vaccines as the cause

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:05am

feels strongly about it?! who cares how he feels.

riboflavin

1/10/17 12:59pm

But 2+2 just FEELS like 5

unctoothman

1/10/17 1:03pm

Read your blog. The author is doing the same smoke and mirrors hack job

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:34pm

In good faith, I read the entire article. Wow. That was long. My favorite was

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 12:35am

The conflict of interest is mitigated by peer-review. Why do so many people

1/11/17 12:31pm

All of them?

Cougarfan777

1/11/17 11:56pm

When their thinking is demonstrably wrong and harms others, I'm ok with it

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:33pm

How so?

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:39pm

RE: How so?

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:40pm

I was directly impacted by anti-vaxxers.

jdub

1/10/17 1:02pm

You bring up a great point.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:10pm

It's not an article when you're self-publishing on the internet.

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:12pm

Also, here are some of the other thought-provoking "articles" on that site

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:16pm

so one message is bad, all messages are bad. got it.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:26pm

Just showing that it's not published in the American Journal of Medicine.

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:36pm

Well, I didn't say what you just claimed I said.

jdub

1/10/17 1:15pm

youre totally right. its not his passion for the topic that makes it interesting

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:27pm

RE: youre totally right. its not his passion for the topic that makes it

jdub

1/10/17 1:42pm

All you need to know about the blog is that he refers to studies that were

Byron McNertney

1/10/17 2:23pm

They have an opinion so ridiculous and potentially harmful that it deserves ridicule.

Jezza

1/10/17 12:36pm

If their different thinking endangers others and is demonstrably wrong, then yes

Byron McNertney

1/10/17 12:43pm

Had some crazy anti-vaccers show up to stage a sit-in at a campaign event last fall.....that was fun.....

Jezza

1/10/17 12:22pm

I've come to believe that often times people aren't that crazy. They've just had

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:25pm

I believe they have had VERY different experiences. But that doesn't make them any less wrong.

Jezza

1/10/17 12:30pm

If "vaccine exemptions" means what I think it does, I'm torn...

BertoChavez

1/10/17 12:24pm

Paying taxes usually doesn't give you the right to infect other students

silent_t

1/10/17 12:28pm

that's an interesting take. please expound..

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 12:29pm

The video DapperDan posted below is a good summary of my feelings on vaccination

silent_t

1/10/17 12:39pm

RE: that's an interesting take. please expound..

byuTX

1/10/17 1:33pm

But what if the vaccine is single digit effective?

CougarAndMerlin

1/10/17 12:31pm

The flu vaccine isn't mandatory

Jezza

1/10/17 12:32pm

Devils advocate. Shouldn't the vaccinated kids be immune anyway?

maxpowers

1/10/17 12:31pm

That's not how vaccinations work. They maintain a low defense, sometimes not enough to withstand contact

Jezza

1/10/17 12:33pm

If that's the case, why did I have to get vaccinated for the plague when I was in the USMC?

CougarAndMerlin

1/10/17 12:40pm

your titer to the disease is much higher after getting the vaccine, so its a goo

TN_Coug

1/10/17 12:45pm

That's not how vaccines work on a large scale

DapperDan

1/10/17 12:36pm

You use the word "infect" in an interesting way.

Y'zFan

1/10/17 12:33pm

I definitely understand this point, but it's a slippery slope.

BertoChavez

1/10/17 1:51pm

This is what should and shouldn't be controlled:

Y Mountain

1/10/17 3:02pm

nice 24 yr old viewpoint

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:17am

When you get into the details, it gets murky.

Y Mountain

1/11/17 9:40am

Gotcha. I agree there is an argument for it in the Libertarian view.

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 10:47am

Not getting your kid vaccinated and sending them to school or in public risks everyone else's kids, It's not a personal

Jezza

1/10/17 12:31pm

So, they're all cess pools of disease, then? I don't think you know what

SPgoofyft

1/10/17 1:00pm

The science is clear. Vaccines do not cause autism. Vaccinate your kids ASAP.

Jezza

1/10/17 1:07pm

Chicken pox sounds mild...but it can be pretty serious under certain conditions.

PharmD

1/10/17 1:12pm

Attending school at all affects other kids in various ways.

BertoChavez

1/10/17 1:54pm

slippery slope indeed.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:58pm

<< Deleted >>

Y Mountain

1/10/17 3:05pm

We probably shouldn't allow kids who have been outside the country into schools

Spine

1/10/17 9:11pm

"We don't vaccinate until they're required to before missions" is an actual

1/10/17 12:43pm

They might be smarter than you think. I bet you know nothing about vaccines

SPgoofyft

1/10/17 1:05pm

I trust the full weight of scientific evidence. This really isn't a tough issue.

Jezza

1/10/17 1:08pm

Lolz.

1/10/17 1:12pm

It has CHEMICALS! Chemicals is such a scary word!

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:21pm

fighting personal attacks with personal attacks.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 1:31pm

Yup. Can we fast forward to the point where you apologize and we hug it out?

OneUpper

1/10/17 1:41pm

We can start with a trip to this site:

byuTX

1/10/17 1:58pm

Sadly, I have a relative that counts here

Y Mountain

1/10/17 3:10pm

and this is why the divide in our country grows wider.

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 4:30pm

And, your assumptions keep missing the mark

jdub

1/10/17 4:51pm

RE: And, your assumptions keep missing the mark

CrashMcLarson

1/10/17 5:24pm

You are flat out wrong on this issue and all the dim-witted, unintelligent folks out banging the drum for this cause are

byuTX

1/10/17 5:28pm

*prey

OneUpper

1/10/17 6:26pm

I think you totally misunderstand my position.

CrashMcLarson

1/11/17 10:20am

But, your post shows the whole problem with your position.

jdub

1/11/17 10:33am

RE: But, your post shows the whole problem with your position.

CrashMcLarson

1/11/17 11:07am

exactly.

jdub

1/11/17 12:37pm

How do people know that the vaccines are what caused the problems with

1/11/17 12:57pm

holy smokes people

CrashMcLarson

1/11/17 1:11pm

Most vaccines are given only a single time, so how can a Mom (or Dad) possibly

1/11/17 7:37pm

you're attributing the actions of one person to a whole group of people.

CrashMcLarson

1/12/17 8:49am

Response to your questions.

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:48am

The overwhelming majority of people, pro- and anti-vax, aren't capable

1/11/17 12:42pm

so you think all anti-vax people dont see the need for doctors..

CrashMcLarson

1/11/17 1:14pm

That is part of the problem. People THINK they figure them out, when in

1/11/17 7:30pm

haha if thats part of your argument to not even try to figure them out...

CrashMcLarson

1/12/17 8:50am

People have died!! It seems you're the one who doesn't want to understand!

Wear Blue

1/11/17 1:11am

or calling them frauds and liars because they differ in their interpretation.

StalwartBraveTrue

1/11/17 1:25am

Polio.

BNcoug

1/11/17 9:15am

Finally, something that left-wing wackos can agree with Trump on.

Conan

1/10/17 1:20pm

SMH

byuTX

1/10/17 5:24pm

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