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Jan 25, 2015
11:51
:45
am
kotacoug
if you don't know anything about it you might want to read up a little before
hand so you know what you're getting yourself into on that one.
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kotacoug
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kotacoug
Joined
Jul 20, 2002
Last login
Sep 14, 2024
Total posts
81,903 (4,756 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Just watched a documentary on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Probably the most
Ebolarama
1/25/15 9:14am
It wasn't your fault.
Slim
1/25/15 9:15am
*wasn't all
HoustonCougar
1/25/15 9:17am
The hard right over the easy wrong is how I look at it
jrifkin48
1/25/15 9:18am
I am grateful for everyone in the service, my brother is in the Navy, but I
Ebolarama
1/25/15 9:27am
Maybe if we only looked at it in a vaccuum. But if you add in all the context
YSMACK
1/25/15 9:46am
Not everyone in the military at that time did sign up
Metallicat
1/25/15 10:08am
Our history is full of it. This is just one example.
GA_Coug
1/25/15 9:20am
I used to live in Hiroshima. I understand exactly how you feel. If you add the
Japan Coug
1/25/15 9:27am
IMO, it was a calculated decision and it worked. It was meant to break
Cosmo Kramer
1/25/15 9:30am
I got into a fist fight in middle school and was held after
SanDiegoCoug
1/25/15 9:32am
According to this logic we should level the Middle East.
GA_Coug
1/25/15 9:37am
Yep. And most of Africa.
Ebolarama
1/25/15 9:38am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 9:44am
?
YSMACK
1/25/15 10:15am
It's really hard to pass judgment without understanding the context
Josef K
1/25/15 10:17am
it's hard to understand the savage decision the Japanese made to not surrender
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:50am
1.2 million more estimated had the war continued
whirl
1/25/15 9:35am
Only if you accept that unconditional surrender was the only alternative
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:51am
and you must, the Japanese culture at the time was horrifically barbaric and
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:53am
You owe it to yourself to watch City of Life and Death on Netflix.
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 9:37am
I'll check it out.
Ebolarama
1/25/15 9:39am
if you don't know anything about it you might want to read up a little before
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:51am
Good advise ^ Just as bad as the atrocities started in the book of Mormon during
MHOP
1/25/15 3:02pm
When you look at the projections for what would have happened if we invaded
PharmD
1/25/15 9:41am
the estimated cost in lives of a land invasion of Japan was much worse
Cougarclaw
1/25/15 9:42am
My favorite work on the subject is Dan carlin's hard core history podcast
jrob30
1/25/15 9:43am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 9:43am
were the civilians getting nuked and firebombed guilty of warcrimes?
BYUtiful
1/25/15 9:48am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 10:06am
you're really great at asking questions, but getting grumpy when others do the
BYUtiful
1/25/15 10:52am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 11:07am
what can i say, i can apparently read you like a book
BYUtiful
1/25/15 11:14am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 12:23pm
you chastise me for putting words in your mouth then do the same thing
BYUtiful
1/25/15 12:37pm
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 12:59pm
it's OK, I forgive you
BYUtiful
1/25/15 1:06pm
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 1:36pm
Does watching "Unbroken" count?
RC Vikings
1/25/15 9:59am
you should read "flyboys" by james bradley...
ds7
1/25/15 10:13am
Terrible, but 5 or 8 POW's in comparison to over 300,000 civilians?
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:35am
Start reading up on the Rape of Nanjing.
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 11:38am
thats just one story. the brutality of the Japanese of POWs is pretty
fattycoug
1/25/15 11:49am
the Japanese were disgusting
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:58am
The Germans only treated POWs of the Western allies well
spinner
1/26/15 7:43am
<< Deleted >>
ArcticKat
1/27/15 1:57pm
this is a must read to understand the mentality of Japanese leadership
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:57am
with the passage of time, people have forgotten just what evil we were facing
ds7
1/25/15 12:12pm
Moderately familiar. But once again very few if any on us non military citizens
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:13am
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
1/25/15 2:22pm
I watched it also, the decision to nuke is at best a 51% yes in hindsight. The
ToasterChive
1/25/15 9:43am
The Germans had already surrendered when we dropped the bomb.
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 9:46am
Yes, my point is just that the fear of defeat was a realistic fear during WW2.
ToasterChive
1/25/15 9:51am
Early in the war, yes. Not in 1945.
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:06am
Thats what I got out of it also. Not a fear of losing but just being sick of war
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:16am
So you're arguing that losing substantially more American and Japanese lives in
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 11:20am
Those are two "bookends," but they probably weren't the only two alternatives.
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:25am
They were the only alternatives with the bomb being fractionally the best choice
ToasterChive
1/25/15 11:36am
How about the alternative where we accept Japan's offer to surrender as long as
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:41am
that would be ridiculous.... the Emperor would just continue with what he had
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:45am
We spared the Emperor anyway, and he was not tried as a war criminal, which was
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:47am
we eviscerated the whole society, they knew they lost, that was the only way
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:55am
Really?
Ebolarama
1/25/15 12:02pm
Hiroshima Hoax: Japan's 'Wllingness to Surrender Before the Bomb
Cully
1/26/15 1:37am
Hiroshima
Japan Coug
1/26/15 4:21am
I'm going off that by most accounts Japan was on its very last leg and the
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:34am
RE: I'm going off that by most accounts Japan was on its very last leg and the
Bullrider
1/25/15 2:36pm
Treason? Really?
Ebolarama
1/25/15 4:06pm
given the alternatives, what would any moral person do in truman's position?
ds7
1/25/15 9:47am
One alternative would have been to accept something less than unconditional
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:12am
Good insight. I would not have accepted less than unconditional surrender if I
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 11:25am
And I understand that point of view. I just think we should be clear that the
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:29am
blame the Japanese Gov
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:35am
This was also a common theme shared by the japanese survivors.
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:36am
it's true, I've talked to many people about it on my mission...
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:38am
There's a big difference between pardoning a convict and not convicting in the
QuinneyCoug
1/25/15 12:13pm
well said
kotacoug
1/25/15 12:18pm
<< Deleted >>
ArcticKat
1/27/15 1:51pm
<< Deleted >>
ArcticKat
1/25/15 11:56am
That's a heavy price to pay in innocent civilian lives, for political expediency
Japan Coug
1/25/15 12:43pm
You are referring to the Japanese emperor and leadership right?
kotacoug
1/25/15 12:45pm
<< Deleted >>
ArcticKat
1/25/15 3:52pm
I did a report on this in law school
spinner
1/25/15 9:48am
My Dad was the private pilot for Curtis LeMay for about 6 weeks.
ClackamasCoug
1/25/15 10:09am
How many were killed by the firebombing?
8man
1/25/15 12:09pm
80-100K estimated in the March 9, 1945 raids
spinner
1/25/15 3:10pm
McNamara said had we lost the war, he would have been convicted of war crimes
Rogue Gunner
1/25/15 9:48am
i think the estimates for loss of life for an invasion of japan were over 1 mil
monkeycowboy
1/25/15 9:55am
You haven't seen the devastating bombings the Nazis did in Europe
Bobby Dooley
1/25/15 9:57am
The Brits' and Americans' bombings actually did many times more damage
spinner
1/25/15 10:01am
<< Deleted >>
ds7
1/25/15 10:04am
Um, it saved lots of lives. Japan was going to fight to the death.
notsofast
1/25/15 10:03am
exactly, it allowed the peace factions inside japan to convince the emperor that
ds7
1/25/15 10:05am
Maybe, and not necessarily. Depends on how important you think it was to obtain
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:15am
they needed to be broken, there needed to be no conditions attached. You know
kotacoug
1/25/15 11:42am
I do know Japanese culture, and I'm not nearly as sure of this as you seem to be
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:44am
Well luckily the leaders at time came to a different conclusion based on their
kotacoug
1/25/15 12:16pm
am american POW was 3x more likely to die in a japanese camp than a german one
ds7
1/25/15 12:40pm
The bomb was for Stalin
ChopperDave
1/25/15 10:07am
so say "some historians" w/ flawed hindsight...
ds7
1/25/15 10:11am
I think this factor was definitely part of the equation when making the
Japan Coug
1/25/15 11:30am
Which documentary?
8man
1/25/15 10:39am
Its on HBO on demand. I don't have the name off the top of my head.
Ebolarama
1/25/15 11:15am
<< Deleted >>
ArcticKat
1/25/15 11:44am
As horrific as the atomic bombings were, I really think they were the lesser of
eddog
1/25/15 4:30pm
And this may be true. But I certainly think its up for discussion.
Ebolarama
1/26/15 9:49am
Japan was already arming and training women and children. They were in it until
Cosmo Kramer
1/27/15 12:54pm
The Japanese (well in the interviews I've heard) don't think thats true.
Ebolarama
1/27/15 12:58pm
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