Huh. I'm concerned that BYU doesn't have place with its morals, but . . .

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Jan 23, 2017
2:48:52pm

CosmoK All-American

There could be real issues with having a Government official sign a quasi-religious document?

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CosmoK

New username: Madam Pattirini
Bio page: CosmoK
Joined: Jun 21, 2003
Last login: Jul 28, 2021
Total posts: 0 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

BYU losing both Army and Air Force ROTC units because of Honor Code?

snowbird

1/23/17 2:42pm

Oh great! Now who will fire the cannon!?

finnish_blue

1/23/17 2:43pm

not just the cannon. The George Q. Cannon!

hxmCougar2000

1/23/17 3:00pm

I'm not a fan of the HC, but I don't care that the ROTC is leaving either.

Pimpin4Paradise

1/23/17 2:45pm

That's unfortunate. The Army and AF ROTCs produce great officers for

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 2:48pm

If they just have to commute to UVU, they'll still get the same officers, No?

Metallicat

1/23/17 2:53pm

Ideally yes. But the additional constraints will make it that much

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 3:03pm

If someone really wants to get commissioned, they'll find a way to it make work.

Metallicat

1/23/17 3:16pm

I know several officers that only joined because the had the Detachment

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:05pm

So these officers would not join if they had to drive 15 min to UVU?

Metallicat

1/24/17 2:24am

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/24/17 2:58am

I can see that.

Metallicat

1/24/17 3:16am

what are the social politics of the federal government?

ag4cougs

1/23/17 2:57pm

STOP! Army is not ordered to leave....(quite yet)

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 2:46pm

Exactly. And once the AF Col gets switched out, one could reasonably assume that it will return to byu.

macaroni

1/23/17 3:29pm

I doubt it. Once the enterprise moves it would be tough to bring it back

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:06pm

Maybe. Maybe not. It's not strange to see changes made, programs created and moved, etc.

macaroni

1/23/17 5:23pm

I can vouch for RealTexan. He's as connected to Army ROTC as you can be.

Six Foot Seven

1/23/17 4:20pm

The writing is on the wall, sir. The Air Force was first forced out, but the

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:07pm

Yep

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 5:34pm

Huh. I'm concerned that BYU doesn't have place with its morals, but . . .

CosmoK

1/23/17 2:48pm

BYU has had USAF officers doing this since 1951

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:08pm

Jay Rick

1/23/17 6:02pm

The AF has assigned an LDS PAS to BYU ever since I can remember

demon_llama

1/23/17 6:23pm

well that's a very one-sided way to attack BYU

Cougarclaw

1/23/17 2:49pm

I'm not sure what the other side would be...

cougarstolz

1/23/17 2:53pm

Yep, there's another side and it's more complex than Reddit reports

ColoSpgs

1/23/17 3:06pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 3:31pm

PMS > PAS

Cougarclaw

1/23/17 3:35pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 6:25pm

Quote from captured Iraqi commander

Cougarclaw

1/23/17 6:49pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 6:52pm

Iraq air force and ada was top notch!!

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 7:18pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 7:36pm

Not correct. Battle of 73 Easting. Zero air support. A US armored division is the most powerful entity in the world.

macaroni

1/23/17 7:22pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 7:32pm

Yes. Still. In a force on force conventional war, all Air Force assets are very vulnerable.

macaroni

1/23/17 8:17pm

73 Easting, son!

macaroni

1/23/17 7:20pm

the AF has O-6 volunteers every year for this.

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:11pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 6:26pm

2 questions I have: Was the DoD appointee for the position not a member of the

LeftOfNormal

1/23/17 2:52pm

The issue is all about....

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 2:56pm

can't this be "slow walked" until the obamites all free from the DOD?

ds7

1/23/17 3:25pm

Correct, the head of both ROTC programs is supposed to be a Temple Recommend

TheLoneCougar

1/23/17 2:57pm

Incorrect!

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 3:00pm

You are incorrect Sir.

TheLoneCougar

1/23/17 3:10pm

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if ND has had to deal with anything similar.

Jay Rick

1/23/17 3:15pm

ND does not

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 3:25pm

I'm just wondering based on Lonecougar's comment that ND requires they be

Jay Rick

1/23/17 3:32pm

LoneCougar--Read your BM! I know what I'm talking about.

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 3:24pm

That sounds like a bunch of malarky. I am an Alumnus of the ROTC department.

TheLoneCougar

1/23/17 2:53pm

So the colonel wouldn't be over both the AFROTC and Army ROTC

Lieutenant America

1/23/17 2:54pm

Correct. 2 distinct programs, getting guidance from different

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 2:57pm

why is one can stay but one feels then need to leave?

ds7

1/23/17 3:26pm

Everyone tweet to Trump. He can fix this.

Mike Honcho

1/23/17 3:13pm

Please do!

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 3:26pm

but i was told by our own "military expert" it was a waste of time...

ds7

1/23/17 3:28pm

It is a waste of time. You're welcome.

macaroni

1/23/17 3:32pm

This is absolutely ridiculous. The last thing BYU needs is the military upset.

ColumbusCoug

1/23/17 3:35pm

You don't think it's reasonable for BYU to expect all professors to sign the honor code that all students also sign?

jaromp

1/23/17 3:38pm

No, I don't believe a military appointed official should be subject to signing

ColumbusCoug

1/23/17 3:45pm

what if it's both?

ds7

1/23/17 3:50pm

Who actually pays the position - BYU or the military?

ColumbusCoug

1/23/17 3:58pm

That sounds absolutely right, and if true, and you do write such a letter, I'd

Jay Rick

1/23/17 4:00pm

what if he's paid by the military but BYU subsidizes the program w/ access

ds7

1/23/17 4:02pm

If he is paid by the military, BYU should be embarrassed and work to resolve

ColumbusCoug

1/23/17 4:04pm

Yes. Paid by Fed. Govt (DOD)

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 4:18pm

I just don't understand how BYU Admin can lack such common sense

ColumbusCoug

1/23/17 4:29pm

It is a military appointed position...

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 4:21pm

It sounds then like this is something BYU could easily avoid, if it wanted to.

Jay Rick

1/23/17 6:07pm

It's both...

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 6:18pm

Religious document? It's a code of conduct. If you want the BYU post, you sign the BYU code of conduct

jaromp

1/23/17 6:37pm

It is a military position, but there are plenty of LDS O-6s

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:20pm

In this case, no. A DOD rep should not have to sign BYU's HC.

ag4cougs

1/23/17 3:57pm

More and more on the fringe with decisions like these

OC Coug

1/23/17 4:01pm

This is exactly the problem with all this stuff - I get it that BYU has a

Jay Rick

1/23/17 4:05pm

There are plenty of Air Force Colonels that would sign the HC

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:22pm

Where is Carrie Jenkins involvement in all this? I wish they would shake that

Q-grr

1/23/17 4:06pm

This is outrageous. I personally know an O-6, Vice Wg/CC, graduated Sq/CC

demon_llama

1/23/17 4:50pm

This is what I don't get. Is is so hard for the military to appoint a BYU guy for the BYU ROTC post?

jaromp

1/23/17 4:56pm

Nope, it's like shooting fish in a barrel to find an LDS O-6

demon_llama

1/23/17 5:23pm

It was a deliberate decision by the previous USAF Political leaders

RealTexan Coug

1/23/17 5:39pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 6:32pm

point is the AF doesn't *want* to accommodate BYU on this anymore

demon_llama

1/23/17 6:33pm

<< Deleted >>

MMCougIII

1/23/17 6:38pm

^^^this^^^

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