He asked. Think. This is not a moral issue. It’s a matter of opinion, and he is

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Jun 18, 2022
12:30:13am

canofpicante All-American

He asked. Think. This is not a moral issue. It’s a matter of opinion, and he is

gathering opinions. So just relax. Take the full caps off. Take a deep breath.

I too would encourage him to educate himself on the matter. After he has done that, it is highly likely that he will come to the same conclusion I have, that whole life is meant to be insurance and an investment at the same time. Nice idea, but crunch the numbers and odds are you’re much better off buying term and investing the additional money you would’ve spent on whole life. The ROI in whole life does not beat historic stock market or real estate trends. Sorry. It’s true. But don’t believe me, I’m just a guy on CB. Do your homework.

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canofpicante

Bio page: canofpicante
Joined: Oct 14, 2011
Last login: Jan 25, 2024
Total posts: 4,645 (8 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Okay financial gurus, am I stupid and being scammed?

YSMACK

6/17/22 4:58pm

Don't do it. His commission is enormous. He's not advising you in your best interests.

mulletino

6/17/22 5:01pm

This. Ask him if he has a fiduciary duty to you. And if he did, would that

ebv

6/17/22 5:03pm

If someone is making $500k plus a yr would it make sense? $750k? Just wondering

kotacoug

6/17/22 5:07pm

Almost certainly not, and probably not, unless those people also had a huge

kos

6/17/22 5:18pm

It’s not as much of a function of income as it is situation. To simply answer your question, the answer is no.

RdF3

6/17/22 5:18pm

^This. Your "private wealth manager" does not have your best interest in mind,

kos

6/17/22 5:04pm

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:16pm

RE: ^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^

ebv

6/17/22 5:24pm

I am not a big fan of whole life insurance.

Zoobieman

6/17/22 5:42pm

Someone else making money is NOT a good reason to not do something!

HTCougar

6/17/22 5:58pm

True. Not necessarily saying it makes this thing a good product but true

JollyGreenGiant

6/17/22 6:01pm

As an FA, I endorse this message.

babybroker

6/17/22 8:40pm

There are situations where whole life makes sense, but I can almost guarantee

RexIdaCoug

6/17/22 5:01pm

I always hear this but never hear those situations, could you or someone else explain a hypothetical where it works?

JollyGreenGiant

6/17/22 5:05pm

A situation where there’s liquidity issues with the estate with a passing or estate tax issues.

RdF3

6/17/22 5:05pm

Estate tax issues like having to pay a lot? Or more complicated than that

JollyGreenGiant

6/17/22 5:07pm

A situation where the estate value is above the estate exclusion so if structured correctly the death benefit

RdF3

6/17/22 5:13pm

If you are in a situation where the estate tax could come into play, whole life

RexIdaCoug

6/17/22 5:08pm

Liquidity concerns. Usually better at young ages to allow the cash to build. Still, I advise most people to go with term

6/17/22 5:23pm

One way to view it can be

6/17/22 9:26pm

Family Bank is the only way I’ve ever seen it work. And that is mostly to pass

Nat Gas Man

6/17/22 5:11pm

I don't remember much from my Family Finance class at BYU

6/17/22 5:02pm

And any universal life as a "savings" under ANY circumstance.

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:14pm

This should be a red flag to find a different advisor.

compcoug

6/17/22 5:03pm

Sounds like northwestern mutual. Am I right or am I right?

RdF3

6/17/22 5:05pm

You are right.

YSMACK

6/17/22 5:05pm

You need a new advisor.

allaboutthegainz

6/17/22 5:06pm

Got involved with those guys and I will never work with them again.

RexIdaCoug

6/17/22 5:11pm

Almost took an internship with them until they wanted me to give referrals of my

allaboutthegainz

6/17/22 5:13pm

Without a doubt. You need to move on.

babybroker

6/17/22 8:42pm

Run away. Now. Join the Bogleheads forum and learn some personal finance.

ebv

6/17/22 5:07pm

Bogleheads for the win!

Kid_A

6/17/22 6:56pm

The MLM of the finance industry.

allaboutthegainz

6/17/22 5:08pm

I have some whole life because my father in law was a life insurance agent and

BYU-Ite

6/17/22 5:06pm

So you're going to cost yourself thousands of dollars to keep the peace?

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:13pm

I already spent thousands of $s more and it was worth every cent to me. He is

BYU-Ite

6/17/22 5:16pm

Sorry but no way I would put my retirement at risk over keeping a bad policy and

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:18pm

You don’t get rid of whole life once you’ve already paid the front-end load fees

BYU-Ite

6/17/22 5:22pm

First you need to be insurable with another policy. Then I do a 1035 Exchange

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:40pm

No need. Again, the fees have been paid. It is now just invested like all my

BYU-Ite

6/17/22 9:09pm

Only way "fees have been paid" would be if it were a paid up plan.

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 12:15am

No argument. I said that already. But you missed that the fees were front loaded

BYU-Ite

6/18/22 9:12am

So if we bought the same car, but I paid $5k for it and you paid $50k for it,

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 9:25am

If I saved a relationship with my father in law- yeah. Relationships and people

BYU-Ite

6/18/22 12:13pm

Well if you have money to burn that's a good attitude to have.

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 3:27pm

Same car? That's hilarious.

HTCougar

6/18/22 3:32pm

Yea it's literally can be that % of a difference between whole life and term.

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 8:01pm

Problem is it's not the same car.

HTCougar

6/18/22 8:56pm

A death benefit on term pays the same as a death benefit on whole life.

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 9:10pm

I am not an expert.

HTCougar

6/18/22 9:59pm

Most life insurance companies will tell their agents whole life is Rolls Royce

SoValleyCOUG

6/18/22 11:43pm

Again, very little of this is true.

HTCougar

6/19/22 11:26am

That's an ignorant response.

SoValleyCOUG

6/19/22 1:22pm

How does it put anything at risk?

YSMACK

6/17/22 5:36pm

I would actually advise against using your term insurance until you are very old

HandwovenBox

6/17/22 5:14pm

My FIL had a life insurance policy with a cash value

RexIdaCoug

6/17/22 5:16pm

This is absolutely true in pretty much every case. I agree.

BYU-Ite

6/17/22 5:18pm

Wow. That’s brutal

kotacoug

6/17/22 6:46pm

Yea you're a sucker if you buy into that. Buy term, invest the difference is bet

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 5:12pm

Vanguard Target Fund. Set it and forget it. Save yourself a bunch of $$

kotacoug

6/17/22 5:18pm

That would be a better alternative.

SoValleyCOUG

6/17/22 6:46pm

Ask him: "With respect to your advice on this whole life policy, are you a fiduciary?" and post his response here.

SaturdaySpecialDay

6/17/22 5:17pm

Insurance agents don’t have that requirement by law

SwanSong

6/17/22 10:19pm

And this is the problem, which many clients don’t understand.

SaturdaySpecialDay

6/18/22 7:32am

Doesn't sound like a guy I'd want to be taking advice from.

grosven

6/17/22 5:27pm

Probably don’t do it but if you are maxing out every other possible

1981coug

6/17/22 5:27pm

Find someone who sells Iul not whole life .

barebones

6/17/22 5:42pm

IUL is just as bad

RdF3

6/17/22 5:55pm

No it is not . Done right it has out performed pretty much any 401k .

barebones

6/17/22 11:02pm

<< Deleted >>

RdF3

6/17/22 11:06pm

The one thing I like about whole life is the ability to borrow against it later

byujdmba

6/17/22 5:48pm

You can do the same thing in a taxable account but with a bigger arbitrage potential.

RdF3

6/17/22 5:55pm

DON'T LISTEN TO ANSWERS FROM PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW YOU!

HTCougar

6/17/22 6:05pm

Millions of people can't be wrong

darkcoug

6/17/22 6:08pm

He hasn't necessarily been duped, he's just working with someone who has....

6/17/22 6:09pm

<< Deleted >>

RdF3

6/17/22 6:11pm

Haha I think we’ve found the whole life sales guy

kotacoug

6/17/22 6:15pm

Maybe we should have him present his numbers on a typical policy sale….

kotacoug

6/17/22 6:24pm

Sounds like you’re looking for misinformation, friend.

ebv

6/17/22 6:40pm

If you like Whole Life, you must be a salesman. How stupid!

HTCougar

6/17/22 10:02pm

Tell me about special benefit only found in whole life & I’ll respond with another & better way to do it.

RdF3

6/17/22 10:16pm

Here is your chance to shine and show how stupid everyone else is… go ahead and

kotacoug

6/17/22 10:22pm

I'll say it again, I don't sell Whole Life

HTCougar

6/17/22 10:59pm

Where are you getting that the only complaint is that there's a high commission?

kos

6/18/22 7:32pm

I've never meant to say people in here don't know;

HTCougar

6/18/22 7:52pm

He asked. Think. This is not a moral issue. It’s a matter of opinion, and he is

canofpicante

6/18/22 12:30am

There seems to be a lot of misinformation on this board about whole life...

Real Men Wear Blue

6/17/22 8:36pm

If you actually believe that to be true, please point out specifics of misinformation.

RdF3

6/17/22 8:52pm

(It’s a joke from the “misinformation” post about solar the other week)

ebv

6/18/22 7:27am

Whole life is the product that makes the advisors the most money. That should

canofpicante

6/17/22 9:52pm

So much of this is wrong!

HTCougar

6/18/22 10:09pm

The exact commission paid to the agent on the contract should be a disclosed line item on the contract.

RdF3

6/18/22 10:22pm

Ok.

HTCougar

6/18/22 10:25pm

I'm still interested to learn your response to the several questions on this thread about whether an agent acts as a

SaturdaySpecialDay

6/19/22 9:28am

Do you sell whole life? Yes or no? Full disclosure

canofpicante

6/20/22 10:11am

I do not.

HTCougar

6/20/22 11:02am

That’s good.

canofpicante

6/20/22 12:19pm

What/Who are the first 10 advertisers in Forbes?

HTCougar

6/20/22 2:56pm

I think you could find that as easily as I could.

canofpicante

6/20/22 4:48pm

Probably

HTCougar

6/20/22 5:29pm

I understand. I used to work for advertising agencies.

canofpicante

6/20/22 8:10pm

I'm not advocating for or against Whole Life

HTCougar

6/20/22 10:16pm

We agree.

canofpicante

6/20/22 11:48pm

*advice

RdF3

6/20/22 3:01pm

Thanks

canofpicante

6/20/22 3:56pm

He probably bought it and is trying to justify his choice.

kos

6/20/22 11:52am

Exactly right

SoValleyCOUG

6/20/22 9:01pm

Insurance is to protect wealth, investments are to grow it

SwanSong

6/17/22 10:15pm

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