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Feb 7, 2023
4:31
:31
pm
Bluedomination
All-American
This is true. Academic affiliation with the likes of UCLA, Stanford, Cal, and Wa
Has improved Utahs academic standing. Their student body is improving also.
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Bluedomination
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Bluedomination
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Last login
May 31, 2024
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12,999 (200 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Tony Altimore makes his case for no PAC12 teams joining the B12
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:28pm
Haha he thinks college football has something to do with academics..
TANK
2/7/23 2:32pm
He (correctly) thinks University Presidents (i.e. academics) are the ones making the decisions
krindorr
2/7/23 2:34pm
^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of millions
Medute
2/7/23 2:40pm
But it may not impact schools like Arizona/ASU and even Oregon as much
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:44pm
Only 2 reasons to jump: survival, lots more money
Medute
2/7/23 4:55pm
Avoiding less money and less exposure are also factors
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 6:24pm
What does research have to do with athletics? They can’t use it for sports
Bobmarleyjr
2/7/23 2:47pm
The AD doesn’t get to act unilaterally on these decisions
Medute
2/7/23 4:57pm
Then I hope they make athletics decisions based on research. Stay in PAC
Bobmarleyjr
2/7/23 5:10pm
Playing the Powerball lottery doesn't count.
Turn and Cough
2/7/23 2:50pm
Just like UNM. The increased research funding has nothing to do with athletics.
jvquarterback
2/7/23 3:07pm
Utah would fall in the middle in the Big 12 academic lineup
bluebrotha
2/7/23 3:19pm
Do you have a list of graduate programs and research dollars per year?
Medute
2/7/23 4:58pm
Unfortunately for you, the metric of research dollars isn’t the only metric
bluebrotha
2/7/23 6:07pm
I think you are missing my point and that's not surprising
Medute
2/7/23 6:33pm
It’s not surprising you’re also missing the point here…
The_Cuss
2/7/23 6:53pm
Valid points. Since you understand that, understand this:
Gentleman Stan
2/7/23 9:34pm
That’s all fine and not a ton to disagree with
Medute
2/7/23 9:58pm
^^^Missed the part where Utah matters in anything..
TANK
2/7/23 3:44pm
RE: ^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of
Ray Shoesmith
2/7/23 4:09pm
This is true. Academic affiliation with the likes of UCLA, Stanford, Cal, and Wa
Bluedomination
2/7/23 4:31pm
RE: ^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of
The_Cuss
2/7/23 4:51pm
Great summary. Thanks for sharing.
TFL
2/7/23 2:36pm
Shortsighted though. After UW, UO, Stanford leave, those factors fade fast
bruincoug
2/7/23 2:38pm
If Washington and Stanford leave there is no Pac12
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:40pm
Xacly
bruincoug
2/7/23 2:50pm
Hey whatever works to keep them in PAC I support.
Bobmarleyjr
2/7/23 2:40pm
Yet, this group of "elite" academic research institutions is considering adding
TrueBlue67
2/7/23 2:43pm
And counts amongst its members ASU, Arizona, Utah, Washington State, and Oregon State
YIsForBrigham
2/7/23 2:45pm
This! They have no choice but to dilute their Pac12 product. It's not the same
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:46pm
Not an expert, but isn’t SMU a pretty good academic school?
Medute
2/7/23 5:08pm
SMU and SDSU may be better than Utah, academically, but are hardly top shelf
ryebrye
2/7/23 5:11pm
SMU looks to be ranked higher than BYU. So I guess we are all middle shelf
Medute
2/7/23 5:42pm
The fact that he tries to prop up the SEC in terms of academics undermines his
Gentleman Stan
2/7/23 2:46pm
To be fair he points out the bottom rung schools
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:49pm
It's ok.
Gentleman Stan
2/7/23 2:54pm
USN was part of it along with various other measurements
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 3:04pm
Most of his points are solid. Does he account for a scenario where 1 or 2 PAC 12
BlooCoog
2/7/23 2:49pm
The assumption is that if Stanford and/or Wash are gone
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:52pm
Yes. The Big 10 does seem to be done for now, especially with a new commish. But
BlooCoog
2/7/23 2:58pm
Mark Rogers and Tony Altimore are elitist clowns
runningryan
2/7/23 2:50pm
That was my thought as well, but I have no understanding of that
CougarCanuck76
2/7/23 2:55pm
But is the networking really more to do with geography and AAU membership than conference affiliation?
runningryan
2/7/23 3:02pm
I think he overemphasizes academics and the impact of conference affiliation on research
krindorr
2/7/23 3:11pm
Correlation is not causation
runningryan
2/7/23 3:15pm
Honestly, I think you're correct. I think the PAC helped them get their sooner, but it was a point of emphasis even b4
krindorr
2/7/23 3:29pm
And that is a human, but realistic consideration
runningryan
2/7/23 3:40pm
Yup, I'm in agreement there. Bottom line, if the PAC football numbers are relati close, then they'd prefer to stay there
krindorr
2/7/23 3:43pm
Again, I'm not saying I agree with Altimore 100% here. Like I said, I think it's overstated
krindorr
2/7/23 3:42pm
Oh I agree, perception is more tangible than reality
runningryan
2/7/23 3:53pm
Honest question. You're clearly bothered by these claims. What are you hoping would happen?
TFL
2/7/23 6:06pm
The danger is that the PAC could be a threat to the Big 12
krindorr
2/7/23 6:29pm
Or maybe the competition between the two creates a compelling new element to the national discussion
TFL
2/8/23 12:09am
I have a personal beef with Tony
runningryan
2/7/23 10:12pm
They want Utah and the PAC to die. It’s not rocket science
Medute
2/7/23 10:17pm
Makes sense. Good take. Utah obviously isn't going anywhere regardless of what happens to the Pac-12 though.
TFL
2/8/23 12:13am
His type of arrogance is why the PAC 12 didn’t see losing USC and UCLA coming
TerpCoug
2/7/23 2:51pm
Excellent point. That’s why the PAC 12 could pursue Kansas and Tech.
Vert der Frick
2/7/23 2:52pm
It's odd that how much money you get for research is tied to your football team
Huge Manatee
2/7/23 2:53pm
Well research dollars don't pay for Athletic budgets. This is the type of
SnickSnack
2/7/23 2:56pm
Again remember that University Presidents are the ones making this decision, so things like
krindorr
2/7/23 3:04pm
Not closest thing to the Ivy League. Emphasis on "Poor Man's" Ivy League.
SnickSnack
2/7/23 3:36pm
Athletics build a school’s brand more than its research
runningryan
2/7/23 3:04pm
honest question: how does being in a conference like Big10 or Pac12 help a
CrashMcLarson
2/7/23 2:56pm
Answer: NO
runningryan
2/7/23 3:11pm
right but ive seen multiple places state being in those conf, increase research
CrashMcLarson
2/7/23 3:28pm
But it is it because of the athletic connection or the AAU relationship network?
runningryan
2/7/23 3:52pm
He is extremely smart, and well-informed. He is also a self-admitted Pac-12 snob who has bashed a large number of
Bob Vance
2/7/23 3:01pm
Dumb. UNM research $ has gone up at the same rate as CU and Utah. Nobody cares
jvquarterback
2/7/23 3:05pm
I think that’s a big consideration for AZ schools — OOS students
bruincoug
2/7/23 6:36pm
Arizona schools get 4x tuition for Texas residents compared to California.
jvquarterback
2/7/23 8:42pm
The Big 12 used to be the more academically rigorous conference vs. the SEC.
Baylorbears11
2/7/23 3:10pm
Very informative. The focus on research $ is understandable, but
Happy As Larry
2/7/23 3:26pm
If he's right, then there's no way SDSU or SMU are invited to the PAC.
Mitty
2/7/23 3:29pm
He hates BYU. Also said SDSU is ok academically for PAC 😄
Kral
2/7/23 4:15pm
He doesn't hate BYU. He makes a valid point about BYU's challenges...
Ushuaia
2/7/23 4:27pm
His presentation says BYU is not R1 because of fundamentalist notions about
TerpCoug
2/7/23 4:40pm
Not quite true.
Boring
2/7/23 7:53pm
“Not a serious research institution” = BYU refuses to be part of the leftist
TerpCoug
2/7/23 4:52pm
Not sure whether to roll my eyes or to laugh. So... 😎
Ushuaia
2/7/23 5:08pm
Feel free to do a bit of both. I just think a lot of these schools lie about
TerpCoug
2/7/23 5:41pm
I find it ironic he accuses BYU of not being legitimate because it has a religious filter when he himself sees the world
runningryan
2/7/23 5:24pm
Having been involved personally in "research" on Multiple Sclerosis at the UU I
BRATS
2/7/23 4:43pm
It’s this kind of thinking that got the pac where it is. The bottom
BYU '80
2/7/23 5:12pm
Tony determines his conclusion and backs his way into it by rationalization and cherry picking what data points he
runningryan
2/7/23 5:17pm
I'll agree with this; I think this board underestimates academic impact, but Altimore way overvalues it
krindorr
2/7/23 5:45pm
I think Academics is the tie breaker
runningryan
2/7/23 8:33pm
He's got a valid point
akbarishiwatsu
2/7/23 5:39pm
Bogus comparisons.
Les IsMore
2/7/23 5:44pm
Honest question: If an AAU PAC 12 team left, would they lose research $ & AAU?
RJCOD
2/7/23 9:49pm
Yes…100% yes. AAU is such a stupid club, they reward those who fall in line with
Vert der Frick
2/7/23 9:59pm
If true, could a former AAU school bring a lawsuit against the AAU?
RJCOD
2/7/23 10:13pm
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