I think that’s a big consideration for AZ schools — OOS students

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Feb 7, 2023
6:36:59pm

bruincoug Truly Addicted User

I think that’s a big consideration for AZ schools — OOS students

California — especially SoCal — has long been their cash cow. I think they’ll maintain that without UCLA/USC since they’re so entrenched. I don’t think they’re so popular OOS because of either sports or research.

But will they get net more or fewer total if they go B12? Will be interesting to see.

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bruincoug

Bio page: bruincoug
Joined: Mar 20, 2003
Last login: May 3, 2024
Total posts: 11,287 (492 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Tony Altimore makes his case for no PAC12 teams joining the B12

2/7/23 2:28pm

Haha he thinks college football has something to do with academics..

TANK

2/7/23 2:32pm

He (correctly) thinks University Presidents (i.e. academics) are the ones making the decisions

krindorr

2/7/23 2:34pm

^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of millions

Medute

2/7/23 2:40pm

But it may not impact schools like Arizona/ASU and even Oregon as much

2/7/23 2:44pm

Only 2 reasons to jump: survival, lots more money

Medute

2/7/23 4:55pm

Avoiding less money and less exposure are also factors

2/7/23 6:24pm

What does research have to do with athletics? They can’t use it for sports

Bobmarleyjr

2/7/23 2:47pm

The AD doesn’t get to act unilaterally on these decisions

Medute

2/7/23 4:57pm

Then I hope they make athletics decisions based on research. Stay in PAC

Bobmarleyjr

2/7/23 5:10pm

Playing the Powerball lottery doesn't count.

2/7/23 2:50pm

Just like UNM. The increased research funding has nothing to do with athletics.

jvquarterback

2/7/23 3:07pm

Utah would fall in the middle in the Big 12 academic lineup

bluebrotha

2/7/23 3:19pm

Do you have a list of graduate programs and research dollars per year?

Medute

2/7/23 4:58pm

Unfortunately for you, the metric of research dollars isn’t the only metric

bluebrotha

2/7/23 6:07pm

I think you are missing my point and that's not surprising

Medute

2/7/23 6:33pm

It’s not surprising you’re also missing the point here…

The_Cuss

2/7/23 6:53pm

Valid points. Since you understand that, understand this:

2/7/23 9:34pm

That’s all fine and not a ton to disagree with

Medute

2/7/23 9:58pm

^^^Missed the part where Utah matters in anything..

TANK

2/7/23 3:44pm

RE: ^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of

2/7/23 4:09pm

This is true. Academic affiliation with the likes of UCLA, Stanford, Cal, and Wa

2/7/23 4:31pm

RE: ^^^Missed the line where Utah’s research $$$ increased by hundreds of

The_Cuss

2/7/23 4:51pm

Great summary. Thanks for sharing.

TFL

2/7/23 2:36pm

Shortsighted though. After UW, UO, Stanford leave, those factors fade fast

bruincoug

2/7/23 2:38pm

If Washington and Stanford leave there is no Pac12

2/7/23 2:40pm

Xacly

bruincoug

2/7/23 2:50pm

Hey whatever works to keep them in PAC I support.

Bobmarleyjr

2/7/23 2:40pm

Yet, this group of "elite" academic research institutions is considering adding

TrueBlue67

2/7/23 2:43pm

And counts amongst its members ASU, Arizona, Utah, Washington State, and Oregon State

2/7/23 2:45pm

This! They have no choice but to dilute their Pac12 product. It's not the same

2/7/23 2:46pm

Not an expert, but isn’t SMU a pretty good academic school?

Medute

2/7/23 5:08pm

SMU and SDSU may be better than Utah, academically, but are hardly top shelf

ryebrye

2/7/23 5:11pm

SMU looks to be ranked higher than BYU. So I guess we are all middle shelf

Medute

2/7/23 5:42pm

The fact that he tries to prop up the SEC in terms of academics undermines his

2/7/23 2:46pm

To be fair he points out the bottom rung schools

2/7/23 2:49pm

It's ok.

2/7/23 2:54pm

USN was part of it along with various other measurements

2/7/23 3:04pm

Most of his points are solid. Does he account for a scenario where 1 or 2 PAC 12

BlooCoog

2/7/23 2:49pm

The assumption is that if Stanford and/or Wash are gone

2/7/23 2:52pm

Yes. The Big 10 does seem to be done for now, especially with a new commish. But

BlooCoog

2/7/23 2:58pm

Mark Rogers and Tony Altimore are elitist clowns

runningryan

2/7/23 2:50pm

That was my thought as well, but I have no understanding of that

2/7/23 2:55pm

But is the networking really more to do with geography and AAU membership than conference affiliation?

runningryan

2/7/23 3:02pm

I think he overemphasizes academics and the impact of conference affiliation on research

krindorr

2/7/23 3:11pm

Correlation is not causation

runningryan

2/7/23 3:15pm

Honestly, I think you're correct. I think the PAC helped them get their sooner, but it was a point of emphasis even b4

krindorr

2/7/23 3:29pm

And that is a human, but realistic consideration

runningryan

2/7/23 3:40pm

Yup, I'm in agreement there. Bottom line, if the PAC football numbers are relati close, then they'd prefer to stay there

krindorr

2/7/23 3:43pm

Again, I'm not saying I agree with Altimore 100% here. Like I said, I think it's overstated

krindorr

2/7/23 3:42pm

Oh I agree, perception is more tangible than reality

runningryan

2/7/23 3:53pm

Honest question. You're clearly bothered by these claims. What are you hoping would happen?

TFL

2/7/23 6:06pm

The danger is that the PAC could be a threat to the Big 12

krindorr

2/7/23 6:29pm

Or maybe the competition between the two creates a compelling new element to the national discussion

TFL

2/8/23 12:09am

I have a personal beef with Tony

runningryan

2/7/23 10:12pm

They want Utah and the PAC to die. It’s not rocket science

Medute

2/7/23 10:17pm

Makes sense. Good take. Utah obviously isn't going anywhere regardless of what happens to the Pac-12 though.

TFL

2/8/23 12:13am

His type of arrogance is why the PAC 12 didn’t see losing USC and UCLA coming

TerpCoug

2/7/23 2:51pm

Excellent point. That’s why the PAC 12 could pursue Kansas and Tech.

2/7/23 2:52pm

It's odd that how much money you get for research is tied to your football team

2/7/23 2:53pm

Well research dollars don't pay for Athletic budgets. This is the type of

SnickSnack

2/7/23 2:56pm

Again remember that University Presidents are the ones making this decision, so things like

krindorr

2/7/23 3:04pm

Not closest thing to the Ivy League. Emphasis on "Poor Man's" Ivy League.

SnickSnack

2/7/23 3:36pm

Athletics build a school’s brand more than its research

runningryan

2/7/23 3:04pm

honest question: how does being in a conference like Big10 or Pac12 help a

CrashMcLarson

2/7/23 2:56pm

Answer: NO

runningryan

2/7/23 3:11pm

right but ive seen multiple places state being in those conf, increase research

CrashMcLarson

2/7/23 3:28pm

But it is it because of the athletic connection or the AAU relationship network?

runningryan

2/7/23 3:52pm

He is extremely smart, and well-informed. He is also a self-admitted Pac-12 snob who has bashed a large number of

Bob Vance

2/7/23 3:01pm

Dumb. UNM research $ has gone up at the same rate as CU and Utah. Nobody cares

jvquarterback

2/7/23 3:05pm

I think that’s a big consideration for AZ schools — OOS students

bruincoug

2/7/23 6:36pm

Arizona schools get 4x tuition for Texas residents compared to California.

jvquarterback

2/7/23 8:42pm

The Big 12 used to be the more academically rigorous conference vs. the SEC.

Baylorbears11

2/7/23 3:10pm

Very informative. The focus on research $ is understandable, but

2/7/23 3:26pm

If he's right, then there's no way SDSU or SMU are invited to the PAC.

Mitty

2/7/23 3:29pm

He hates BYU. Also said SDSU is ok academically for PAC 😄

Kral

2/7/23 4:15pm

He doesn't hate BYU. He makes a valid point about BYU's challenges...

Ushuaia

2/7/23 4:27pm

His presentation says BYU is not R1 because of fundamentalist notions about

TerpCoug

2/7/23 4:40pm

Not quite true.

Boring

2/7/23 7:53pm

“Not a serious research institution” = BYU refuses to be part of the leftist

TerpCoug

2/7/23 4:52pm

Not sure whether to roll my eyes or to laugh. So... 😎

Ushuaia

2/7/23 5:08pm

Feel free to do a bit of both. I just think a lot of these schools lie about

TerpCoug

2/7/23 5:41pm

I find it ironic he accuses BYU of not being legitimate because it has a religious filter when he himself sees the world

runningryan

2/7/23 5:24pm

Having been involved personally in "research" on Multiple Sclerosis at the UU I

BRATS

2/7/23 4:43pm

It’s this kind of thinking that got the pac where it is. The bottom

BYU '80

2/7/23 5:12pm

Tony determines his conclusion and backs his way into it by rationalization and cherry picking what data points he

runningryan

2/7/23 5:17pm

I'll agree with this; I think this board underestimates academic impact, but Altimore way overvalues it

krindorr

2/7/23 5:45pm

I think Academics is the tie breaker

runningryan

2/7/23 8:33pm

He's got a valid point

2/7/23 5:39pm

Bogus comparisons.

Les IsMore

2/7/23 5:44pm

Honest question: If an AAU PAC 12 team left, would they lose research $ & AAU?

RJCOD

2/7/23 9:49pm

Yes…100% yes. AAU is such a stupid club, they reward those who fall in line with

2/7/23 9:59pm

If true, could a former AAU school bring a lawsuit against the AAU?

RJCOD

2/7/23 10:13pm

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