player control

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Mar 5, 2015
3:34:54pm

sdg_coug

player control

All states use the same nfhs rulebook, so there isn't really a uhsaa basketball rule book. Each state has their own adaptions, maybe even a published guide, but they all use the same nfhs rulebook.
A player control foul has automatically discounted a made basket ever since I started officiating HS ball in utah 15 years ago.

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sdg_coug

Previous username: goodrichn
Bio page: sdg_coug
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Last login: May 10, 2024
Total posts: 118 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

25 most misunderstood basketball rules...

StantonMac

3/5/15 12:46pm

Part of the problem is that so many rules are different in different leagues.

SandYFan

3/5/15 12:51pm

In FIBA rules at least 13, 22, 23 & 25 are different. Pretty sure 23 is

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 1:56pm

#1: block vs charge

SJS

3/5/15 12:51pm

Problem with this is it is never consistently called...

Fdnman

3/5/15 12:52pm

It's a hard one. Have to track where players' feet are, who is moving when,

SandYFan

3/5/15 12:53pm

Actually it's not hard at all.

3/5/15 3:00pm

As far as the rule is concerned, if the defender gets there first and doesn't

db59840

3/5/15 3:09pm

It gets a little harder if the defender isn't in legal guarding position

3/5/15 4:32pm

#23 FTW! People never understand that yewtin' rule

3/5/15 12:51pm

23 is a little incomplete

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:25pm

I was thinking 23 was wrong on dribble.

PJMort

3/5/15 4:21pm

Is a pivot foot established if you obtain the ball while only having one foot on

QBarrister

3/5/15 4:39pm

Yes. The foot on the ground is the pivot foot.

Y'zFan

3/5/15 7:51pm

So then in the fastbreak layup scenario, the catcher is supposed to catch the

QBarrister

3/6/15 8:06am

His foot can come off the ground as long as he releases the shot before

Y'zFan

3/6/15 9:00pm

11 and 23 are called constantly, especially in pickup ball.

Thrill

3/5/15 12:53pm

The Euro step looks all the world like traveling, though. I kinda hate it.

SandYFan

3/5/15 12:54pm

Love the euro step

CSoul

3/5/15 12:59pm

People who do Euro steps usually travel while doing so. Another thing people

db59840

3/5/15 1:28pm

yup

icecougar

3/5/15 3:23pm

otoh, kids today don't understand that when you catch the ball in a stationery..

icecougar

3/5/15 3:22pm

#20 block/charge: anyone who thinks you can't be moving to take a charge is dumb

SoCalCoug6

3/5/15 12:55pm

My understanding

22jrob22

3/5/15 1:02pm

#1 - A defender does not have to fall for a charge to be called.

CosmoK

3/5/15 3:38pm

Haha, there's a lot of dumb refs out there.

3/5/15 1:06pm

9 is interesting.

SandYFan

3/5/15 12:56pm

Yeah, amazing how many bball players don't realize this rule.

SoCalCoug6

3/5/15 12:58pm

This rule is used alot in church ball due to subpar shooters!

Cougz19

3/5/15 2:08pm

Did not know this rule#9.... good to know. Do pro's have the same rule?

3/5/15 3:58pm

Its different in the NBA

CaliWG

3/5/15 4:25pm

#22

22jrob22

3/5/15 12:56pm

Likely, the list is put together by "rules interpreter" for the OSAA, not UHSAA.

ByuMba90

3/5/15 1:15pm

player control

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:34pm

<< Deleted >>

SlavaBlue

3/5/15 12:59pm

RE: #13 - I feel like I've always seen the top called out of bounds.

FootBackwards

3/5/15 1:51pm

This gets called in church ball a lot, but it is the incorrect call

CougarBacker

3/5/15 1:53pm

As a high school and county rec official, it's mind numbing how many spectators

CougarBacker

3/5/15 1:58pm

I would get that from a lot of players. They would say "I took two steps". I

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 2:04pm

The other one I used to get all the time was the people who would whine about

CougarBacker

3/5/15 2:12pm

Of course, you always have the crowd who wants an and one after getting fouled

CougarBacker

3/5/15 2:14pm

I had a really noisy fan in an empty gym (maybe 20 spectators) really yelling

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 2:21pm

Haha those guys are the best. The ones that don't know the rules, but they're

CougarBacker

3/5/15 2:25pm

Nothing on carrying the ball while dribbling; did you watch I. Thomas vs Jazz?

Hinta

3/5/15 1:00pm

See #7

BYUBandfan

3/5/15 1:08pm

Yeah, carrying happens ALL the time in basketball. It's just rarely called. In

db59840

3/5/15 1:16pm

Fantastic stuff ... well said.

tassell

3/5/15 1:00pm

who thinks #6 isn't true?

fattycoug

3/5/15 1:04pm

traveling

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:37pm

#8 used to be all contact with the foot at least at the HS level. Must have

db59840

3/5/15 1:05pm

Its always been intentional

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:39pm

#3 is misleading. There is usually contact when someone reaches over another

db59840

3/5/15 1:09pm

I think the idea is contact vs pushing

22jrob22

3/5/15 1:14pm

but the player being "reached over" is often the one to initiate contact

fattycoug

3/5/15 1:15pm

Right. I have a problem when the offensive player clearly reaches over the

db59840

3/5/15 1:23pm

but why should the boxing player be able to push the other player?

fattycoug

3/5/15 1:34pm

Actually, I think you're right. I don't see anything in the rulebook about

db59840

3/5/15 1:39pm

boxing out

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:45pm

My coaches/Dad always taught me that too, but I guess they were wrong.

db59840

3/5/15 4:01pm

similar to slide tackles from behind in soccer

blucoug18

3/5/15 1:55pm

reaching over

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:41pm

That's why good coaches always have their players jump for rebounds

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 4:19pm

the hand part of the ball rule...seems like nobody's heard of that one.

Government Bailout

3/5/15 1:11pm

Whenever I bring that up in pickup games, almost no one believes me.

db59840

3/5/15 1:13pm

i started to doubt myself, but i might print this out and take it from now on!

Government Bailout

3/5/15 1:29pm

Haha. Sometimes I go to the phone between games and pull it up on the NCAA

db59840

3/5/15 1:31pm

I thought that was a myth - interesting to see it in writing

dryflyelk

3/5/15 1:29pm

not when shooting

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:48pm

incorrect. Rule 10 article 2 of the NCAA mens basketball rulebook.

Government Bailout

3/5/15 3:57pm

You're right

sdg_coug

3/5/15 4:29pm

Just so I am clear. When I am shooting a shot

BYUALWAYSNUM1

3/5/15 9:53pm

yep, legal play.

sdg_coug

3/8/15 10:48am

Re: #16: Why was Worthington's "box-out" during the KC dunk last Saturday

db59840

3/5/15 1:13pm

When done near the basket, can be seen as trying to "establish" a position, even

byufan007

3/5/15 1:34pm

It was definitely a foul on Worthington. No doubt. But the clever players make

tassell

3/5/15 1:35pm

Inside the key, that is rarely called. If he had that sort of contact

Thrill

3/5/15 2:25pm

CB needs to have a ticker at the bottom of the board with these rules during

3/5/15 1:14pm

#12 is always called on the defender, you almost never see it called on the

3/5/15 1:16pm

Yep. I hate that so much. I always get fouls called on me when I take a wide

db59840

3/5/15 1:19pm

Legal guarding position requires shoulders and knees to be close to vertical.

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 4:24pm

There is no definition of how wide is too wide though.

db59840

3/5/15 4:39pm

Here is how FIBA describes it. I'm sure other rule books have their own

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 5:16pm

Well, that's about as wide as I ever place my feet, so I stand by my position.

db59840

3/9/15 9:46am

never seen a push off called

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:52pm

My HS coach made sure we understood the rules, #9 has caused a ton

CaliWG

3/5/15 1:20pm

airball

sdg_coug

3/5/15 3:52pm

TRAVELING: when you slide across the floor with the ball in your hand,

dryflyelk

3/5/15 1:26pm

False. Rolling on the ground is a travel. Sliding used to be, but now it has

rggee

3/5/15 1:49pm

Also has to do with whether control of the ball is established or if the ball is

byufan007

3/5/15 1:58pm

This is from the 2015 NCAA Rules Case Book.

rggee

3/5/15 2:03pm

Right - so you CAN slide across the floor as long as its from initial momentum

dryflyelk

3/5/15 2:36pm

I'm glad they changed it. Rewards hustle.

ToughGuy

3/5/15 3:11pm

The "advantage" thing is way too subjective for me. I hate

gwalker

3/5/15 1:28pm

i.e. every time Waldow has the ball. Shaq did it too. You shouldn't just be

db59840

3/5/15 1:30pm

Dont bring the NBA into a discussion about rules.

3/5/15 3:11pm

that's why I hate the NBA...

icecougar

3/5/15 3:49pm

Amen.

3/5/15 4:36pm

the rule isn't vague, it's easy to see that when Waldow slams his shoulder...

icecougar

3/5/15 3:46pm

The way Bogut and Miles went at it in the post

3/5/15 4:38pm

I always felt bad for Worthington and Mika last year...

icecougar

3/5/15 7:19pm

Both true

3/5/15 9:39pm

Pac12 officals are the one clear advantage that Utah received when they...

icecougar

3/7/15 8:41pm

There are far more than two examples.

3/7/15 9:51pm

Good link for anyone interested in stuff like this

22jrob22

3/5/15 1:32pm

I always thought with #8, the kicked ball, if the foot was in the air and it

budYu

3/5/15 2:15pm

I didn't know the one about the pivot foot having to come back down. Interesting

3/5/15 2:17pm

only for shooting, passing

sdg_coug

3/5/15 4:01pm

I've coached basketball for thirty years and that was informative.

gstodd

3/5/15 2:25pm

30 years is a long time

sdg_coug

3/5/15 4:03pm

Thanks for the compliment. Obviously, you are aware of how ambiguous the rules

gstodd

3/7/15 6:44pm

Ive reffed basketball for almost as long

3/5/15 4:39pm

3, 4 and 8 are what I see most.

Walter Bellhaven

3/5/15 2:46pm

I hate the proliferation of pushing off that I see now with guards...

icecougar

3/5/15 3:57pm

High school kids around here constantly dribble with their arm out...

bluecheese

3/5/15 4:08pm

Over and back is really misunderstood too.

bluecheese

3/5/15 4:10pm

Also a lot of kids think that if there's a shot you can get called for backcourt

tebowned

3/5/15 4:28pm

Is it back court if....

3/5/15 6:13pm

It is in FIBA

downtownchrisbrown

3/5/15 6:20pm

No. Control must be established. Offense can even tip it into the backcourt on a

cucciolo25

3/5/15 7:38pm

Yes, this is a backcourt violation

sdg_coug

3/6/15 11:59am

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