Thank you! Facts are stubborn things but ultimately lead to truth.

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Jan 15, 2022
5:15:33pm

Forzaitalia Starter

Thank you! Facts are stubborn things but ultimately lead to truth.

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Forzaitalia

Bio page: Forzaitalia
Joined: Sep 16, 2019
Last login: Jun 20, 2024
Total posts: 9,260 (7 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

The Middle Class Crunch. Living on 70K in Utah.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:30am

Full time day care for two children is only $1200 at Montessori?

CrimsonCoug81

1/15/22 8:33am

Yeah that sounds like a steal for full time

DiamondMo

1/15/22 8:36am

Nah sounds about right for Layton

Heath Squashwell

1/15/22 8:51am

In Lehi I pay 1,100 for just one child… 1,200 for 2 is a steal

austin418

1/15/22 9:07am

Probably not the best school

Heath Squashwell

1/15/22 9:12am

We were at that much for one kid under 2yo and like $800 for over 2yo in SLC

DiamondMo

1/15/22 9:12am

$70k leaves almost no room for anything, in many parts of the country (Cali)

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:34am

It's no wonder our birth rate is crashing in this country.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:36am

Yep, you see it in Cali, you cannot have a big family there, absolutely

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:38am

Do Californians actually say "Cali"?

calbearcoug

1/15/22 11:37am

Not since the 1990s

Socrates Johnson

1/15/22 11:50am

Even then it was a VERY fleeting moment. No one says Cali who lives/lived in CA. You may get NorCal or SoCal though.

kalifi

1/15/22 1:59pm

The first time I heard “Cali” was when I was at BYU.

stenso

1/15/22 2:11pm

RE: Do Californians actually say "Cali"?

1/15/22 5:47pm

No they don't. Sounds terrible

Mitty

1/15/22 6:52pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:46am

Or give out a huge child tax credit from the government?

Acorn

1/15/22 9:48am

I donated plasma regularly for 2 years. It was tough to find the time to fit it in with FT work and school. Helped out

spugeddy24

1/15/22 10:54am

Example in OP aren’t in school. Plenty of time to plasma

Acorn

1/15/22 11:21am

A Zion society is not one where we expect parents to sell blood to have a basic

valleus

1/15/22 12:10pm

LOL Zion doesn’t guarantee a middle class lifestyle in America. The people in

Acorn

1/15/22 12:18pm

If that’s your vision of what constitutes a healthy society, then theres

valleus

1/15/22 1:35pm

😆 Zion currently has a flat tax, a lot of volunteer hours & different goals

BYU'01

1/15/22 12:35pm

It requires the sacrifice of all things to build up the kingdom of God. Plasma

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:01pm

Or we could allow workers a bigger piece of the pie.

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:17pm

You want dramatically lower incomes for the sake of narrower distribution?

BYU'01

1/15/22 1:20pm

No. Who said that????

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:30pm

You did.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:31pm

No, I did not. Where did I say we should have a smaller pie to divide?

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:38pm

You: “Things were pretty good in the post-war years.” Less wealth in the top 10%

BYU'01

1/15/22 1:41pm

It’s clear you think you didn’t but you did.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:43pm

I think you misunderstand the data you are seeing. And for good reason... the far left are on a disinformation

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 1:36pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 1:40pm

New school, cheaper car and don't eat out as much until you can afford it

Zak

1/15/22 8:34am

Have you priced used cars recently? $15K for a 6 year old Corolla with 60K miles

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:38am

There are plenty of decent cars for $5k. Of course they will have higher mileage

Zak

1/15/22 8:46am

Naw, I got my son's Hyundai for 8k just recently, under 100k miles. This family could cut a lot more.

CSoul

1/15/22 9:11am

My son’s car was 8k too. 101k miles.

Socrates Johnson

1/15/22 10:56am

DFG checks car title...: 2006 salvaged title...

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 11:13am

Dude works at a car dealership. In most dealerships, you can't drive a POJ

Parker Schnabel

1/15/22 1:13pm

That looks right having just lived it and was frugal, except drove old cars and

BNcoug

1/15/22 9:54am

How about Mom and Dad donate plasma - that is $300-$400 each per month.

Acorn

1/15/22 9:59am

A lot of those budget items seems even too low. I’m surprised it’s only $5800.

ponys

1/15/22 8:35am

Shows how much things have worsened in just a few years.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:36am

Agree. For example, paying $280 for insurance for a family is fantastic.

BoiseBlue

1/15/22 8:38am

Healthcare at $300 for everything seems low.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:38am

$167 for all utilities? That’s impossible in a house where I live, even a very

Submariner

1/15/22 8:39am

My gas bill alive was $190 last month. And we keep the upper floor at 67

maxpowers

1/15/22 8:47am

Still amazes me how faithful many at that income level are in paying tithing

cougfanz

1/15/22 8:38am

This is take-home pay. Their combined salary is probably ~90k+ before taxes.

bluebooks

1/15/22 8:39am

Actually - it's probably more like $100k (assuming they've also removed 401k).

bluebooks

1/15/22 9:06am

How are you taking home $67k on a salary of $70k? You gotta make a lot more

Cougarmayn

1/15/22 8:40am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:41am

And live in a very modest area (a borderline ghetto).

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:44am

Tough sale for the kids who have grown up in middle class America.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:45am

Yep, I have 3 that will be seeing that real soon...

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:49am

It's essentially telling Americans to accept a declining standard of living.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:49am

Living a declining standard of living is what starting out is all about. We lived in a garbage part of Provo for five

CSoul

1/15/22 9:15am

Fix the math in the above example to make it work.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:44am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:55am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 9:05am

Easy. 33 year old man gets a job(or jobs) making more than 50k.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 9:38am

Also Cougarboard: it's RIDICULOUS that people want $15 an hour.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:01am

The sentiment is that 15 an hour is over the top for doing internet sales.

EQD2

1/15/22 10:19am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 10:22am

If the work someone does is only worth $10/hour a gov’t mandate ≠ a solution

BYU'01

1/15/22 10:34am

It's not ridiculous if you understand that most union wages are based on

bjc

1/15/22 12:04pm

Here's a breakdown of how I would attempt to fix this problem.

cougargollum

1/15/22 12:10pm

And many of these inflated costs are associated with overreach from our federal

Benfica1

1/15/22 8:48am

Soon they will control health care.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:56am

They already do.

cougfanz

1/15/22 9:11am

Hard to believe that kids 3 and 2 need to be in monitory school/ daycare if both

Superman21

1/15/22 8:51am

They need better jobs.

05COUG

1/15/22 9:07am

Teacher's aides don't get any benefits and make around $12 per hour.

bluebooks

1/15/22 9:17am

Substitute teachers don't require degree and earn $18/hour. They have positions

Pick-Six Coug

1/15/22 12:00pm

it was $72 a day when I subbed 8 years ago.

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 12:07pm

On the Wasatch front $125/day is common. Total time on job is 7.33 hrs,

Pick-Six Coug

1/15/22 12:16pm

I got hosed!

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 12:22pm

The first thing I would cut is the groceries and eating out portion.

cougargollum

1/15/22 9:23am

I think $840 /month for all food for a family of 4 is pretty reasonable already.

stenso

1/15/22 9:27am

It is not hard to cut that down. Not at all. Even with current prices.

CSoul

1/15/22 9:30am

Could go way lower easily. Especially with kids young enough that one is in diapers. Will take some time in meal

mvtoro

1/15/22 10:34am

It's not unreasonable if you have the money and can still eat healthy while

cougargollum

1/15/22 10:44am

Not when you are short every month

LaserCoug

1/15/22 4:59pm

In 1990 I had an $1,800 monthly mortgage on a 900 square foot condo

Acorn

1/15/22 9:27am

So 30 years ago you were living on 57K. No surprise 70K in 2022 is tough.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:04am

No. Point was bigger payment for housing and lower salary

Acorn

1/15/22 11:15am

57k/yr in 1990 = $115k/yr in 2020.

valleus

1/15/22 10:44am

Starting wage for big 4 * 2 is much more than $115K

Acorn

1/15/22 11:18am

Lol. The point is that living on 57k in 1990 or 115k in 2020 is pretty easy.

valleus

1/15/22 11:40am

Lol. Point is making $57K with an $1800 house payment not any easier than making

Acorn

1/15/22 11:44am

If I were that dad... no way would I only be working 40/hrs a week. There is so much more time in the day to earn money

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 10:21am

They spend too much on cars, insurance and gas for a small, young family.

Doogal McCougar

1/15/22 10:40am

These “let them eat cake” responses are why terrible people such as Bernie/AOC

valleus

1/15/22 10:42am

We're going to get a nasty backlash if we don't fix this problem.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:46am

Amen. Conservatives wonder why they’re losing young voters to the left.

stenso

1/15/22 10:50am

Do you believe that the rich are stacking the economy against these people

EQD2

1/15/22 10:53am

The rich have captured nearly 100% of productivity gains over the last 50 yrs.

ReyOso

1/15/22 11:51am

that doesn't sound right to me. The poor have never been better off in our country.

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 11:57am

oso doesn't care if the poor are better off now than they were. He cares that

EQD2

1/15/22 12:02pm

The Uber rich can buy a lot of power and influence...

1/15/22 8:02pm

This is what the country realized a hundred years ago. Theodore Roosevelt and

stenso

1/15/22 8:32pm

The game is rigged. People are tired of it.

Mitty

1/15/22 7:24pm

Agreed. Also the crudeness of trump pushed me that way.

boctabulous

1/15/22 7:57pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 10:55am

Could not agree more. For those of us trying to preserve capitalism and

Mitty

1/15/22 7:21pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 7:28pm

Commies are going to commie no matter how good the poor have it.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 7:53pm

What do you think it means to work hard to lift your family higher than the last generation?

Soupie

1/15/22 8:14pm

In 1985 a teachers salary could buy a modest sfh in many metros. In 2021 it

valleus

1/15/22 8:51pm

There are a lot of current expenses that didn't exist in 1985. Daughter is in 2nd yr teaching in Utah making about

Soupie

1/15/22 9:02pm

Maybe Americans should vote differently.

Benfica1

1/15/22 9:13pm

Maybe we should have more than 2 crappy old dudes to pick from too.

boctabulous

1/15/22 9:33pm

The current old dude will go down as the crappiest president of all time.

Benfica1

1/15/22 9:55pm

In a fair election lol.

boctabulous

1/17/22 8:55am

You're better off under a Biden presidency? You lucked it. It is hurting

Benfica1

1/17/22 9:13am

Seems very straightforward to me. If you want housing, education, and healthcare

EQD2

1/15/22 9:19pm

No judgement here but 70k in a one earner house hold is very different than 70k

CougaRR4L

1/15/22 10:43am

As a single income teacher in Utah I make close to 100k. My budget looks like:

Adwight

1/15/22 10:46am

What kind of teacher are you? Not a challenge, just hear all the time that teachers aren’t paid well enough,

mvtoro

1/15/22 11:20am

Science teacher. Also coach football and have a degree that gets an extra 5k

Adwight

1/15/22 12:14pm

Holy crap. My kid is a teacher and makes $42k.

Acorn

1/15/22 11:25am

Sounds like he is at the beginning of his career, and on his way to 100k

EQD2

1/15/22 11:31am

Hopefully she does. Plus a pension and every summer off. Nice life.

Acorn

1/15/22 11:48am

My daughter is a teacher and makes $50k a yr in SLC. Granted she just graduated

Cougarite

1/15/22 11:36am

I would tell her to go to Western Governors and get her masters ASAP.

Adwight

1/15/22 12:16pm

Great tip. How much does that cost? How difficult to complete over the summer?

Acorn

1/15/22 12:25pm

I think my daughter priced it out at $7k

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:36pm

3500 total for me. You pay for 6 month increments.

Adwight

1/15/22 2:30pm

Ya. She is going to get her masters. She is going to wait 2 years to start. She

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:34pm

You got your masters in 2 months??

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:36pm

2 months?! Doing it right👆🏻

mvtoro

1/15/22 1:18pm

By spending habits, this couple isn’t prioritizing getting ahead. If they were…

canofpicante

1/15/22 1:04pm

Remove the over regulation of everything by the local, state, and federal governments and this situation improves

hdx57

1/15/22 1:12pm

Not sure how much harder this is than 30 years ago. I remember at that stage

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 1:15pm

I remember pretty much everyone in my neighborhood had a stay at home mom. Only

boctabulous

1/15/22 1:27pm

30 years ago or do you mean 60? My wife worked & we had kids in the 80s Most of

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 4:12pm

Im 44 years old. 30 years ago everyone in my neighborhood had a stay at home

boctabulous

1/15/22 4:33pm

The data shows that the % of dual income households is the same as the 80’s

stenso

1/15/22 4:40pm

Sure doesn’t seem like it in LDS culture… seems like a pretty big

cougfanz

1/15/22 5:04pm

Yep. I was speaking to where I lived. It has changed drastically.

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:13pm

Thank you! Facts are stubborn things but ultimately lead to truth.

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:15pm

Hope you aren't referring to me. All I have said is that in my neighborhood

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:19pm

Where were you living? I'm 64. My wife would tell you most women were working

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 4:44pm

Kearns Utah

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:14pm

Thx. That's a Mormon cultural bubble (not a bad thing at all) and explains

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:37pm

especially my tiny neighborhood. Everyone was mormon and everyone knew everyone

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:44pm

And thats really cheap health insurance too.

boctabulous

1/15/22 1:27pm

Oh the humanity. Why can't we just forgive those student loans already?

Y05

1/15/22 2:04pm

There may be a little victimhood going on here. Obviously there are exceptions,

CougarScrub

1/15/22 2:25pm

Spot on. My posts echo that. As a Syrian friend of mine, who worked in France 17

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:45pm

The US government has been waging war on the middle class for decades.

Mitty

1/15/22 7:34pm

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