I think you misunderstand the data you are seeing. And for good reason... the far left are on a disinformation

Jan 15, 2022
1:36:08pm

HarlemCoug Free to change my mind

campaign.

Ratios today will never again resemble post war ratios. The internet/globalization have forever changed things.

Today there are more global enterprises than ever. Zuckerberg has few employees considering the massive global reach of his enterprise. Guys like him skew the data.

You're looking at the wrong data.

You should be comparing the lifestyle of poor people today with the lifestyle of poor people in 1948. Their lifestyles are materially different.

It doesnt matter that Mark has $100B... what matters is that poor people today have a significantly better standard of living.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Jan 15, 2022 at 1:36:08pm

Message modified by HarlemCoug on Jan 15, 2022 at 7:51:18pm

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HarlemCoug

Previous username: Big12
Bio page: HarlemCoug
Joined: Sep 8, 2014
Last login: May 24, 2024
Total posts: 32,481 (4,068 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

The Middle Class Crunch. Living on 70K in Utah.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:30am

Full time day care for two children is only $1200 at Montessori?

CrimsonCoug81

1/15/22 8:33am

Yeah that sounds like a steal for full time

DiamondMo

1/15/22 8:36am

Nah sounds about right for Layton

Heath Squashwell

1/15/22 8:51am

In Lehi I pay 1,100 for just one child… 1,200 for 2 is a steal

austin418

1/15/22 9:07am

Probably not the best school

Heath Squashwell

1/15/22 9:12am

We were at that much for one kid under 2yo and like $800 for over 2yo in SLC

DiamondMo

1/15/22 9:12am

$70k leaves almost no room for anything, in many parts of the country (Cali)

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:34am

It's no wonder our birth rate is crashing in this country.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:36am

Yep, you see it in Cali, you cannot have a big family there, absolutely

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:38am

Do Californians actually say "Cali"?

calbearcoug

1/15/22 11:37am

Not since the 1990s

Socrates Johnson

1/15/22 11:50am

Even then it was a VERY fleeting moment. No one says Cali who lives/lived in CA. You may get NorCal or SoCal though.

kalifi

1/15/22 1:59pm

The first time I heard “Cali” was when I was at BYU.

stenso

1/15/22 2:11pm

RE: Do Californians actually say "Cali"?

GSwarriorcoug

1/15/22 5:47pm

No they don't. Sounds terrible

Mitty

1/15/22 6:52pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:46am

Or give out a huge child tax credit from the government?

Acorn

1/15/22 9:48am

I donated plasma regularly for 2 years. It was tough to find the time to fit it in with FT work and school. Helped out

spugeddy24

1/15/22 10:54am

Example in OP aren’t in school. Plenty of time to plasma

Acorn

1/15/22 11:21am

A Zion society is not one where we expect parents to sell blood to have a basic

valleus

1/15/22 12:10pm

LOL Zion doesn’t guarantee a middle class lifestyle in America. The people in

Acorn

1/15/22 12:18pm

If that’s your vision of what constitutes a healthy society, then theres

valleus

1/15/22 1:35pm

😆 Zion currently has a flat tax, a lot of volunteer hours & different goals

BYU'01

1/15/22 12:35pm

It requires the sacrifice of all things to build up the kingdom of God. Plasma

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:01pm

Or we could allow workers a bigger piece of the pie.

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:17pm

You want dramatically lower incomes for the sake of narrower distribution?

BYU'01

1/15/22 1:20pm

No. Who said that????

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:30pm

You did.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:31pm

No, I did not. Where did I say we should have a smaller pie to divide?

ReyOso

1/15/22 1:38pm

You: “Things were pretty good in the post-war years.” Less wealth in the top 10%

BYU'01

1/15/22 1:41pm

It’s clear you think you didn’t but you did.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 1:43pm

I think you misunderstand the data you are seeing. And for good reason... the far left are on a disinformation

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 1:36pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 1:40pm

New school, cheaper car and don't eat out as much until you can afford it

Zak

1/15/22 8:34am

Have you priced used cars recently? $15K for a 6 year old Corolla with 60K miles

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:38am

There are plenty of decent cars for $5k. Of course they will have higher mileage

Zak

1/15/22 8:46am

Naw, I got my son's Hyundai for 8k just recently, under 100k miles. This family could cut a lot more.

CSoul

1/15/22 9:11am

My son’s car was 8k too. 101k miles.

Socrates Johnson

1/15/22 10:56am

DFG checks car title...: 2006 salvaged title...

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 11:13am

Dude works at a car dealership. In most dealerships, you can't drive a POJ

Parker Schnabel

1/15/22 1:13pm

That looks right having just lived it and was frugal, except drove old cars and

BNcoug

1/15/22 9:54am

How about Mom and Dad donate plasma - that is $300-$400 each per month.

Acorn

1/15/22 9:59am

A lot of those budget items seems even too low. I’m surprised it’s only $5800.

ponys

1/15/22 8:35am

Shows how much things have worsened in just a few years.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:36am

Agree. For example, paying $280 for insurance for a family is fantastic.

BoiseBlue

1/15/22 8:38am

Healthcare at $300 for everything seems low.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:38am

$167 for all utilities? That’s impossible in a house where I live, even a very

Submariner

1/15/22 8:39am

My gas bill alive was $190 last month. And we keep the upper floor at 67

maxpowers

1/15/22 8:47am

Still amazes me how faithful many at that income level are in paying tithing

cougfanz

1/15/22 8:38am

This is take-home pay. Their combined salary is probably ~90k+ before taxes.

bluebooks

1/15/22 8:39am

Actually - it's probably more like $100k (assuming they've also removed 401k).

bluebooks

1/15/22 9:06am

How are you taking home $67k on a salary of $70k? You gotta make a lot more

Cougarmayn

1/15/22 8:40am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:41am

And live in a very modest area (a borderline ghetto).

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:44am

Tough sale for the kids who have grown up in middle class America.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:45am

Yep, I have 3 that will be seeing that real soon...

WIGGIN

1/15/22 8:49am

It's essentially telling Americans to accept a declining standard of living.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:49am

Living a declining standard of living is what starting out is all about. We lived in a garbage part of Provo for five

CSoul

1/15/22 9:15am

Fix the math in the above example to make it work.

ReyOso

1/15/22 8:44am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 8:55am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 9:05am

Easy. 33 year old man gets a job(or jobs) making more than 50k.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 9:38am

Also Cougarboard: it's RIDICULOUS that people want $15 an hour.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:01am

The sentiment is that 15 an hour is over the top for doing internet sales.

EQD2

1/15/22 10:19am

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 10:22am

If the work someone does is only worth $10/hour a gov’t mandate ≠ a solution

BYU'01

1/15/22 10:34am

It's not ridiculous if you understand that most union wages are based on

bjc

1/15/22 12:04pm

Here's a breakdown of how I would attempt to fix this problem.

cougargollum

1/15/22 12:10pm

And many of these inflated costs are associated with overreach from our federal

Benfica1

1/15/22 8:48am

Soon they will control health care.

idcougarfan

1/15/22 8:56am

They already do.

cougfanz

1/15/22 9:11am

Hard to believe that kids 3 and 2 need to be in monitory school/ daycare if both

Superman21

1/15/22 8:51am

They need better jobs.

05COUG

1/15/22 9:07am

Teacher's aides don't get any benefits and make around $12 per hour.

bluebooks

1/15/22 9:17am

Substitute teachers don't require degree and earn $18/hour. They have positions

Pick-Six Coug

1/15/22 12:00pm

it was $72 a day when I subbed 8 years ago.

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 12:07pm

On the Wasatch front $125/day is common. Total time on job is 7.33 hrs,

Pick-Six Coug

1/15/22 12:16pm

I got hosed!

Dark Forest Green

1/15/22 12:22pm

The first thing I would cut is the groceries and eating out portion.

cougargollum

1/15/22 9:23am

I think $840 /month for all food for a family of 4 is pretty reasonable already.

stenso

1/15/22 9:27am

It is not hard to cut that down. Not at all. Even with current prices.

CSoul

1/15/22 9:30am

Could go way lower easily. Especially with kids young enough that one is in diapers. Will take some time in meal

mvtoro

1/15/22 10:34am

It's not unreasonable if you have the money and can still eat healthy while

cougargollum

1/15/22 10:44am

Not when you are short every month

LaserCoug

1/15/22 4:59pm

In 1990 I had an $1,800 monthly mortgage on a 900 square foot condo

Acorn

1/15/22 9:27am

So 30 years ago you were living on 57K. No surprise 70K in 2022 is tough.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:04am

No. Point was bigger payment for housing and lower salary

Acorn

1/15/22 11:15am

57k/yr in 1990 = $115k/yr in 2020.

valleus

1/15/22 10:44am

Starting wage for big 4 * 2 is much more than $115K

Acorn

1/15/22 11:18am

Lol. The point is that living on 57k in 1990 or 115k in 2020 is pretty easy.

valleus

1/15/22 11:40am

Lol. Point is making $57K with an $1800 house payment not any easier than making

Acorn

1/15/22 11:44am

If I were that dad... no way would I only be working 40/hrs a week. There is so much more time in the day to earn money

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 10:21am

They spend too much on cars, insurance and gas for a small, young family.

Doogal McCougar

1/15/22 10:40am

These “let them eat cake” responses are why terrible people such as Bernie/AOC

valleus

1/15/22 10:42am

We're going to get a nasty backlash if we don't fix this problem.

ReyOso

1/15/22 10:46am

Amen. Conservatives wonder why they’re losing young voters to the left.

stenso

1/15/22 10:50am

Do you believe that the rich are stacking the economy against these people

EQD2

1/15/22 10:53am

The rich have captured nearly 100% of productivity gains over the last 50 yrs.

ReyOso

1/15/22 11:51am

that doesn't sound right to me. The poor have never been better off in our country.

HarlemCoug

1/15/22 11:57am

oso doesn't care if the poor are better off now than they were. He cares that

EQD2

1/15/22 12:02pm

The Uber rich can buy a lot of power and influence...

So it goes...

1/15/22 8:02pm

This is what the country realized a hundred years ago. Theodore Roosevelt and

stenso

1/15/22 8:32pm

The game is rigged. People are tired of it.

Mitty

1/15/22 7:24pm

Agreed. Also the crudeness of trump pushed me that way.

boctabulous

1/15/22 7:57pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 10:55am

Could not agree more. For those of us trying to preserve capitalism and

Mitty

1/15/22 7:21pm

<< Deleted >>

novacoug1

1/15/22 7:28pm

Commies are going to commie no matter how good the poor have it.

jvquarterback

1/15/22 7:53pm

What do you think it means to work hard to lift your family higher than the last generation?

Soupie

1/15/22 8:14pm

In 1985 a teachers salary could buy a modest sfh in many metros. In 2021 it

valleus

1/15/22 8:51pm

There are a lot of current expenses that didn't exist in 1985. Daughter is in 2nd yr teaching in Utah making about

Soupie

1/15/22 9:02pm

Maybe Americans should vote differently.

Benfica1

1/15/22 9:13pm

Maybe we should have more than 2 crappy old dudes to pick from too.

boctabulous

1/15/22 9:33pm

The current old dude will go down as the crappiest president of all time.

Benfica1

1/15/22 9:55pm

In a fair election lol.

boctabulous

1/17/22 8:55am

You're better off under a Biden presidency? You lucked it. It is hurting

Benfica1

1/17/22 9:13am

Seems very straightforward to me. If you want housing, education, and healthcare

EQD2

1/15/22 9:19pm

No judgement here but 70k in a one earner house hold is very different than 70k

CougaRR4L

1/15/22 10:43am

As a single income teacher in Utah I make close to 100k. My budget looks like:

Adwight

1/15/22 10:46am

What kind of teacher are you? Not a challenge, just hear all the time that teachers aren’t paid well enough,

mvtoro

1/15/22 11:20am

Science teacher. Also coach football and have a degree that gets an extra 5k

Adwight

1/15/22 12:14pm

Holy crap. My kid is a teacher and makes $42k.

Acorn

1/15/22 11:25am

Sounds like he is at the beginning of his career, and on his way to 100k

EQD2

1/15/22 11:31am

Hopefully she does. Plus a pension and every summer off. Nice life.

Acorn

1/15/22 11:48am

My daughter is a teacher and makes $50k a yr in SLC. Granted she just graduated

Cougarite

1/15/22 11:36am

I would tell her to go to Western Governors and get her masters ASAP.

Adwight

1/15/22 12:16pm

Great tip. How much does that cost? How difficult to complete over the summer?

Acorn

1/15/22 12:25pm

I think my daughter priced it out at $7k

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:36pm

3500 total for me. You pay for 6 month increments.

Adwight

1/15/22 2:30pm

Ya. She is going to get her masters. She is going to wait 2 years to start. She

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:34pm

You got your masters in 2 months??

Cougarite

1/15/22 12:36pm

2 months?! Doing it right👆🏻

mvtoro

1/15/22 1:18pm

By spending habits, this couple isn’t prioritizing getting ahead. If they were…

canofpicante

1/15/22 1:04pm

Remove the over regulation of everything by the local, state, and federal governments and this situation improves

hdx57

1/15/22 1:12pm

Not sure how much harder this is than 30 years ago. I remember at that stage

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 1:15pm

I remember pretty much everyone in my neighborhood had a stay at home mom. Only

boctabulous

1/15/22 1:27pm

30 years ago or do you mean 60? My wife worked & we had kids in the 80s Most of

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 4:12pm

Im 44 years old. 30 years ago everyone in my neighborhood had a stay at home

boctabulous

1/15/22 4:33pm

The data shows that the % of dual income households is the same as the 80’s

stenso

1/15/22 4:40pm

Sure doesn’t seem like it in LDS culture… seems like a pretty big

cougfanz

1/15/22 5:04pm

Yep. I was speaking to where I lived. It has changed drastically.

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:13pm

Thank you! Facts are stubborn things but ultimately lead to truth.

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:15pm

Hope you aren't referring to me. All I have said is that in my neighborhood

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:19pm

Where were you living? I'm 64. My wife would tell you most women were working

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 4:44pm

Kearns Utah

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:14pm

Thx. That's a Mormon cultural bubble (not a bad thing at all) and explains

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:37pm

especially my tiny neighborhood. Everyone was mormon and everyone knew everyone

boctabulous

1/15/22 5:44pm

And thats really cheap health insurance too.

boctabulous

1/15/22 1:27pm

Oh the humanity. Why can't we just forgive those student loans already?

Y05

1/15/22 2:04pm

There may be a little victimhood going on here. Obviously there are exceptions,

CougarScrub

1/15/22 2:25pm

Spot on. My posts echo that. As a Syrian friend of mine, who worked in France 17

Forzaitalia

1/15/22 5:45pm

The US government has been waging war on the middle class for decades.

Mitty

1/15/22 7:34pm

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