Are we talking about rape being used as a positive defense against HC

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Apr 29, 2016
11:28:17am

Reborncoug Walk-on

Are we talking about rape being used as a positive defense against HC

Violation. Or someone simple coming forward to report being sexually assaulted?

Could those two situations be treated differently? That is if some reports an assault the HC office never gets details of the victim even if the setting around assault included HC violations.

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Reborncoug

Previous username: theref
New username: HugoStiglitz
Bio page: Reborncoug
Joined: Apr 20, 2016
Last login: Jun 26, 2019
Total posts: 0 (0 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

POLL: Which potential rape reporting/ Honor Code policy is better?

4/29/16 10:45am

I'd be okay with a temporary exemption but not permanent

KingDave

4/29/16 10:47am

Which has the same effect as option B, doesn't it?

Finngirl

4/29/16 10:50am

Please explain.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 10:53am

My guess is that this is what Worthen will do. The thinking is that the first

Bostonblue

4/29/16 10:58am

They you might as well choose option B.

Finngirl

4/29/16 11:00am

It definitely will lead to inconsistencies with

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:05am

When the rape investigation is done, then explore the situation for HC issues

KingDave

4/29/16 11:12am

Anyone who breaks the honor code should be investigated, be it immediately or after a period of time based on

DrKennethNoisewater

4/29/16 10:56am

That is logical in many ways but it will still

Y'zFan

4/29/16 10:58am

I am OK with the HCO investigating serious HC violations

4/29/16 10:57am

So the report coming from the rape suspect is fair game?

Kajdin

4/29/16 10:58am

Even if that other venue is from the alleged attacker?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:05am

I think the case by case approach would be best in that situation.

4/29/16 12:48pm

If its not a blanket policy, then all students who report rape risk being investigated for HC violations, and if that

Finngirl

4/29/16 12:52pm

I think the 'discourages reporting' is exaggerated for effect and based more on

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:04am

I know 6 women personally who were raped. Only 2 of them reported it.

Zilog

4/29/16 11:06am

Then you probably have a different opinion than me. Each of ours biased by our

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:08am

*alleged to have been raped. I assume you were not a witness to the crimes

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:10am

Sigh..

Zilog

4/29/16 1:20pm

due process sucks, I know.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:25pm

Do you think there are more false accusations of rape, than real ones?

Zilog

4/29/16 1:36pm

No idea. But what difference does not make? Due process rights apply to

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:43pm

Do you always correct people with *allegedly when they state something as fact

Zilog

4/29/16 2:16pm

no, I just do it for the really blatant instances. Just trying to be fair

Bostonblue

4/29/16 2:22pm

So I should have said I know 6 people that *alledgedly were raped?

Zilog

4/29/16 2:33pm

'Say they were' 'claim to have been' the way you phrased it made it seem like

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:48pm

I mean I knew these women personally. Not heard of from someone else.

Zilog

4/29/16 2:54pm

have you ever met someone in person that lied?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 3:01pm

Yes. I still don't undesrtand the reason for you posting that.

Zilog

4/29/16 3:09pm

Yep. You don't have personal knowledge, so in my opinion, you shouldn't be

Bostonblue

4/29/16 3:24pm

So we're you there and involved? I think we were all just assuming you weren't

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:24pm

No I wasn't there. I just didn't undestand the reasoning of his comment.

Zilog

4/29/16 2:34pm

That is different. My first thought based on your post is that you were the perp

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:46pm

YOU thought I was saying I raped 6 women and only 2 reported it? Really?

Zilog

4/29/16 2:52pm

I figured you weren't, but the way you phrased it, the first thought was you

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:11pm

Well I'm glad I got clarification from you.

Zilog

4/29/16 3:29pm

At BYU or in general?

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:06pm

I feel the exact opposite. I think the number of false claims of rape are

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:08am

You think there are people that have an agenda to affirmatively promote

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:11am

I think you misunderstood what he said. The number of "false" reports is exagger

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:13am

why would you think conservatives would want to promote that agenda?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:38am

There could be lots of reasons. My first gut though is just as a counteragenda

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:45am

So you admit that you and concolor are

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:55am

I'm not necessarily taking a position. Was just trying to explain what I thought

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:11pm

truth is that almost everyone in society instantly takes the side of

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:00pm

Its funny that some posters here automatically believe Bill Clinton's rape victims but are suspicious of most other

Finngirl

4/29/16 12:19pm

I really think this is the core issue at hand What is really the 'Truth'? We

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:13am

Unfortunately, in the "who do you trust more, SJWs or BYU" question, I can't say

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:15am

Considering we have no real facts, and neither side is credible. Although using

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:18am

Yeah, that was a little TIC. But what did I expect her to say? Either something

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:20am

I expect her to tell the truth...or at least not say something like that

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:21am

With things like that 'truth' is subjective.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:27am

I would throw an intent to deceive flag on that statement all day long

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:29am

Then she should say nothing. But don't say something patently untrue.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:31am

Is it patently untrue? Or do you just assume people want it because you do?

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:13pm

Not just me. Pretty much everyone I ever knew at BYU. But now I'm curious so I'm

Jay Rick

4/29/16 3:38pm

I am not saying the data on caffeine isn't skewed via an agenda, but 'true' in

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:53pm

BYU thinks false reports are high? I dont think that statement is justifiable

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:18am

Who said they were high? I don't think that is what I said.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:40am

Sorry if you disagree with the phrasing. You said you trust BYU over the stats

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:45am

Based on what?

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:39am

DOJ survey with regard to campus rape reporting

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:01pm

So what are the real numbers?

Y'zFan

4/29/16 12:16pm

80% of campus rapes unreported according to the DOJ

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:19pm

That's not the question. What is the actual

Y'zFan

4/29/16 12:37pm

There's no way anyone could possibly know that. See my post below.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:41pm

You asked why I feel that way

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:43pm

I think I acknowledged that no one has 'true' numbers.

BYUtka

4/29/16 1:03pm

There are definitely numbers that have been produced that would give us an

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:13pm

Like 50 percent of marriages end in divorce and Utah is #1 in porn viewing.

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:10pm

Orange you glad we dont have to rely on single studies

concolor couguar

4/29/16 2:15pm

You are just reporting your feelings.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 1:03pm

I think it because of the reported numbers I have seen

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:10pm

Well then explain your argument.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 1:11pm

Did you want false claim studies or under reporting studies?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:20pm

Great. Now explain your argument.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 2:46pm

Why would an exemption increase false claims?

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:13am

Simple economics.

4/29/16 11:16am

How does reporting a sexual assault benefit someone economically?

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:19am

The argument is that someone is having consensual sex and gets caught, or is

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:23am

ThanksI was focusing on incidents where victim isn't

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:34am

Thanks. I was just considering situations where victim isn't accused first.

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:35am

And I think that's an important distinction.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:42am

Isn't this what happened with the Crowton era rape allegations?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:47am

I know nothing about that, but will say that just b/c no one was convicted,

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:56am

if you won't accept a jury verdict as proof of what occurred, then couldn't

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:24pm

You realize their is a vast difference between a not guilty verdict and

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:29pm

I understand that. But if you're an accused person, that is your only chance

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:40pm

I suspect an equal number of truly guilty rapists are found not guilty

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:49pm

your willingness to speculate and guess re: other peoples' lives is insane

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:52pm

How did I impact other peoples lives with this speculation?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:56pm

I can't say cause I have no idea who you are and what influence you'd had.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:58pm

Being that I made the statement 10 minutes ago I would need to be very

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:00pm

go look at your post history. you'd be surprised.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:03pm

surprised at what?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:11pm

at what a complete biased homer you are on this issue. I'd never allow you to

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:17pm

The only "homer" here is you

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:22pm

go look at my posting history. I'm perfectly willing to say that

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:27pm

Not BYU but some posters deserve the title for sure and probably some employees

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:30pm

I hear there is a search function on CB. Try it.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:43pm

No thanks, I have read more of your posts than I care to already.

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:51pm

ok. Take my word for it then.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:54pm

Definitely data problems on both sides.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:35pm

I appreciate that you are willing to view these statistics with a critical eye.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:42pm

and you are convinced any study is crap if it goes against your opinion

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:52pm

Nope. I just view stats with a critical eye. Thanks a lot Stats 200!

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:59pm

Your posting history says otherwise

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:00pm

Example?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 2:23pm

Really? You see no benefit to making a false rape claim? Especially at BYU it is

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:24am

But why would that get reported anyway? If someone is going to lie and say she

Scratch

4/29/16 11:33am

To be ahead of the fallout. Try to appease the guilt. Lots of reasons.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:39am

Economics deals with cause and effect.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:29am

if you want to avoid discipline for consensual sex, I could see people

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:41am

My thoughts:

4/29/16 11:15am

Are we talking about rape being used as a positive defense against HC

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:28am

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