You realize their is a vast difference between a not guilty verdict and

Apr 29, 2016
12:29:45pm

concolor couguar All-American

being innocent right? Trials do not prove innocence which was Jay Rick's point. Not guilty means they couldnt prove guilt.

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concolor couguar

Previous username: improv
Bio page: concolor couguar
Joined: Jul 15, 2009
Last login: Sep 16, 2016
Total posts: 18,011 (234 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

POLL: Which potential rape reporting/ Honor Code policy is better?

frontrowcougar

4/29/16 10:45am

I'd be okay with a temporary exemption but not permanent

KingDave

4/29/16 10:47am

Which has the same effect as option B, doesn't it?

Finngirl

4/29/16 10:50am

Please explain.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 10:53am

My guess is that this is what Worthen will do. The thinking is that the first

Bostonblue

4/29/16 10:58am

They you might as well choose option B.

Finngirl

4/29/16 11:00am

It definitely will lead to inconsistencies with

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:05am

When the rape investigation is done, then explore the situation for HC issues

KingDave

4/29/16 11:12am

Anyone who breaks the honor code should be investigated, be it immediately or after a period of time based on

DrKennethNoisewater

4/29/16 10:56am

That is logical in many ways but it will still

Y'zFan

4/29/16 10:58am

I am OK with the HCO investigating serious HC violations

Hoosier Cougar

4/29/16 10:57am

So the report coming from the rape suspect is fair game?

Kajdin

4/29/16 10:58am

Even if that other venue is from the alleged attacker?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:05am

I think the case by case approach would be best in that situation.

Hoosier Cougar

4/29/16 12:48pm

If its not a blanket policy, then all students who report rape risk being investigated for HC violations, and if that

Finngirl

4/29/16 12:52pm

I think the 'discourages reporting' is exaggerated for effect and based more on

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:04am

I know 6 women personally who were raped. Only 2 of them reported it.

Zilog

4/29/16 11:06am

Then you probably have a different opinion than me. Each of ours biased by our

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:08am

*alleged to have been raped. I assume you were not a witness to the crimes

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:10am

Sigh..

Zilog

4/29/16 1:20pm

due process sucks, I know.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:25pm

Do you think there are more false accusations of rape, than real ones?

Zilog

4/29/16 1:36pm

No idea. But what difference does not make? Due process rights apply to

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:43pm

Do you always correct people with *allegedly when they state something as fact

Zilog

4/29/16 2:16pm

no, I just do it for the really blatant instances. Just trying to be fair

Bostonblue

4/29/16 2:22pm

So I should have said I know 6 people that *alledgedly were raped?

Zilog

4/29/16 2:33pm

'Say they were' 'claim to have been' the way you phrased it made it seem like

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:48pm

I mean I knew these women personally. Not heard of from someone else.

Zilog

4/29/16 2:54pm

have you ever met someone in person that lied?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 3:01pm

Yes. I still don't undesrtand the reason for you posting that.

Zilog

4/29/16 3:09pm

Yep. You don't have personal knowledge, so in my opinion, you shouldn't be

Bostonblue

4/29/16 3:24pm

So we're you there and involved? I think we were all just assuming you weren't

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:24pm

No I wasn't there. I just didn't undestand the reasoning of his comment.

Zilog

4/29/16 2:34pm

That is different. My first thought based on your post is that you were the perp

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:46pm

YOU thought I was saying I raped 6 women and only 2 reported it? Really?

Zilog

4/29/16 2:52pm

I figured you weren't, but the way you phrased it, the first thought was you

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:11pm

Well I'm glad I got clarification from you.

Zilog

4/29/16 3:29pm

At BYU or in general?

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:06pm

I feel the exact opposite. I think the number of false claims of rape are

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:08am

You think there are people that have an agenda to affirmatively promote

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:11am

I think you misunderstood what he said. The number of "false" reports is exagger

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:13am

why would you think conservatives would want to promote that agenda?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:38am

There could be lots of reasons. My first gut though is just as a counteragenda

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:45am

So you admit that you and concolor are

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:55am

I'm not necessarily taking a position. Was just trying to explain what I thought

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:11pm

truth is that almost everyone in society instantly takes the side of

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:00pm

Its funny that some posters here automatically believe Bill Clinton's rape victims but are suspicious of most other

Finngirl

4/29/16 12:19pm

I really think this is the core issue at hand What is really the 'Truth'? We

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:13am

Unfortunately, in the "who do you trust more, SJWs or BYU" question, I can't say

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:15am

Considering we have no real facts, and neither side is credible. Although using

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:18am

Yeah, that was a little TIC. But what did I expect her to say? Either something

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:20am

I expect her to tell the truth...or at least not say something like that

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:21am

With things like that 'truth' is subjective.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:27am

I would throw an intent to deceive flag on that statement all day long

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:29am

Then she should say nothing. But don't say something patently untrue.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:31am

Is it patently untrue? Or do you just assume people want it because you do?

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:13pm

Not just me. Pretty much everyone I ever knew at BYU. But now I'm curious so I'm

Jay Rick

4/29/16 3:38pm

I am not saying the data on caffeine isn't skewed via an agenda, but 'true' in

BYUtka

4/29/16 3:53pm

BYU thinks false reports are high? I dont think that statement is justifiable

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:18am

Who said they were high? I don't think that is what I said.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:40am

Sorry if you disagree with the phrasing. You said you trust BYU over the stats

concolor couguar

4/29/16 11:45am

Based on what?

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:39am

DOJ survey with regard to campus rape reporting

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:01pm

So what are the real numbers?

Y'zFan

4/29/16 12:16pm

80% of campus rapes unreported according to the DOJ

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:19pm

That's not the question. What is the actual

Y'zFan

4/29/16 12:37pm

There's no way anyone could possibly know that. See my post below.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:41pm

You asked why I feel that way

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:43pm

I think I acknowledged that no one has 'true' numbers.

BYUtka

4/29/16 1:03pm

There are definitely numbers that have been produced that would give us an

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:13pm

Like 50 percent of marriages end in divorce and Utah is #1 in porn viewing.

BYUtka

4/29/16 2:10pm

Orange you glad we dont have to rely on single studies

concolor couguar

4/29/16 2:15pm

You are just reporting your feelings.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 1:03pm

I think it because of the reported numbers I have seen

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:10pm

Well then explain your argument.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 1:11pm

Did you want false claim studies or under reporting studies?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:20pm

Great. Now explain your argument.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 2:46pm

Why would an exemption increase false claims?

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:13am

Simple economics.

frontrowcougar

4/29/16 11:16am

How does reporting a sexual assault benefit someone economically?

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:19am

The argument is that someone is having consensual sex and gets caught, or is

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:23am

ThanksI was focusing on incidents where victim isn't

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:34am

Thanks. I was just considering situations where victim isn't accused first.

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:35am

And I think that's an important distinction.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:42am

Isn't this what happened with the Crowton era rape allegations?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:47am

I know nothing about that, but will say that just b/c no one was convicted,

Jay Rick

4/29/16 11:56am

if you won't accept a jury verdict as proof of what occurred, then couldn't

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:24pm

You realize their is a vast difference between a not guilty verdict and

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:29pm

I understand that. But if you're an accused person, that is your only chance

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:40pm

I suspect an equal number of truly guilty rapists are found not guilty

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:49pm

your willingness to speculate and guess re: other peoples' lives is insane

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:52pm

How did I impact other peoples lives with this speculation?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:56pm

I can't say cause I have no idea who you are and what influence you'd had.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:58pm

Being that I made the statement 10 minutes ago I would need to be very

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:00pm

go look at your post history. you'd be surprised.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:03pm

surprised at what?

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:11pm

at what a complete biased homer you are on this issue. I'd never allow you to

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:17pm

The only "homer" here is you

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:22pm

go look at my posting history. I'm perfectly willing to say that

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:27pm

Not BYU but some posters deserve the title for sure and probably some employees

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:30pm

I hear there is a search function on CB. Try it.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:43pm

No thanks, I have read more of your posts than I care to already.

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:51pm

ok. Take my word for it then.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 1:54pm

Definitely data problems on both sides.

Jay Rick

4/29/16 12:35pm

I appreciate that you are willing to view these statistics with a critical eye.

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:42pm

and you are convinced any study is crap if it goes against your opinion

concolor couguar

4/29/16 12:52pm

Nope. I just view stats with a critical eye. Thanks a lot Stats 200!

Bostonblue

4/29/16 12:59pm

Your posting history says otherwise

concolor couguar

4/29/16 1:00pm

Example?

Bostonblue

4/29/16 2:23pm

Really? You see no benefit to making a false rape claim? Especially at BYU it is

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:24am

But why would that get reported anyway? If someone is going to lie and say she

Scratch

4/29/16 11:33am

To be ahead of the fallout. Try to appease the guilt. Lots of reasons.

BYUtka

4/29/16 11:39am

Economics deals with cause and effect.

Y'zFan

4/29/16 11:29am

if you want to avoid discipline for consensual sex, I could see people

Bostonblue

4/29/16 11:41am

My thoughts:

frontrowcougar

4/29/16 11:15am

Are we talking about rape being used as a positive defense against HC

Reborncoug

4/29/16 11:28am

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