Those who believe in the unlimited power of the State

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Apr 23, 2018
7:48:30am

HighHorse Lysander Spooner Fan

will generally jump to conclusions that the victim lied.

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HighHorse

Bio page: HighHorse
Joined: Apr 23, 2002
Last login: May 13, 2024
Total posts: 74,463 (4,300 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Personal responsibility is gone. Woman blames airline because she didn't declare

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 6:34am

I'd be pissed, too, but not at the airline. $500 fine for having an apple?

frontrowcougar

4/23/18 6:45am

Seriously just throw it away. No damage done.

JuicyJam

4/23/18 7:01am

Yeah, we had a US border guard offer two options when he found us in possession

StarMan

4/23/18 7:50am

The exact same thing happened to me.

canuck

4/23/18 8:37am

I can’t count the number of times I’ve brought Kinder Eggs over the border...

Taullis

4/23/18 11:21am

My kids (probably aged 14-24 at the time) held up our bag of chocolates which

StarMan

4/23/18 11:28am

Figures. We always just say oh about $xxx worth of candy. Might be why

Taullis

4/23/18 1:28pm

Everything about this situation has the appearance of a customs guy on a power trip

buffgato

4/23/18 7:14am

We need to focus more on abuses like this.

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:16am

Preach, brother!

frontrowcougar

4/23/18 9:06am

That really was uncalled for.

Six Foot Seven

4/23/18 8:18am

I would agree if it were in the normal customs line. In fact, that's likely how

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:28am

You can imagine him being a jerk, but it's entirely possible that his reaction

StantonMac

4/23/18 9:49am

Fair point.

buffgato

4/23/18 9:54am

Did she get the apple after filling out the form?

mobomanjoe

4/23/18 6:48am

No, the form is on a kiosk on the ground

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 7:21am

I've never seen that, only the paper ones they hand out when you board

buffgato

4/23/18 7:23am

She was global entry, which only has kiosks. She's also held to a higher

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 7:29am

Unfortunately, not all US airports have installed the kiosks yet

specsauce

4/23/18 8:02am

Airlines are required to give you the customs form in the air, even if GE.

mik3

4/23/18 10:12am

That's not correct. Many immigration and customs facilities don't even accept

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 10:43am

That's what I thought too, but FA insisted. So I took the form, NBD.

mik3

4/23/18 10:53am

Not true anymore. My last international flight was form free

LaserCoug

4/23/18 11:26am

Right, I suspect it has to do with arrival airport.

mik3

4/23/18 11:28am

Our flight crew was normally based in in airport that doesn't have the kiosks

LaserCoug

4/23/18 12:32pm

Bad form by delta. They should let people know about that risk. It is not

Baron

4/23/18 6:58am

What difference does it make if the fruit is considered French or US? The form, in plain language, asks if you have

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 7:19am

If it is already considered in the US, she is technically not bringing it in the

Baron

4/23/18 7:24am

they aren't asking if you are bringing in fruit from a foreign country - the form asks if you have any fruit on you. If

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 7:38am

You don't know that she lied. And it does matter about the situs of the fruit.

Baron

4/23/18 7:41am

Those who believe in the unlimited power of the State

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:48am

You are wrong as to the law - country of origin does not matter with declaring this fruit. All fruit must be declared

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 7:49am

Maybe, I would still make the argument until I saw specific case law to suggest

Baron

4/23/18 7:51am

Yeah, calling her a liar is bizarre

buffgato

4/23/18 7:54am

I have no sympathy for someone blaming a business when the error is hers. Here is the question she was asked on the

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 7:58am

Is she blaming Delta or making a suggestion?

buffgato

4/23/18 8:01am

I blame the business for bad customer service. A better business would alert its

Baron

4/23/18 8:01am

And this is why we have to tell people not to eat Tide Pods, or why we have to

Radioactive Coug

4/23/18 8:11am

I do think the whole fine was dumb, but to blame Delta is...

Radioactive Coug

4/23/18 8:12am

I'm not convinced she is blaming Delta

buffgato

4/23/18 8:14am

She is blaming everybody but herself

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:19am

We don't really know that though

buffgato

4/23/18 8:33am

Fair, but even some people on this thread are.

Radioactive Coug

4/23/18 8:34am

I think they could certainly do more to ensure this doesn't happen in the future

buffgato

4/23/18 8:36am

I blame oppressive agents who know the intent but push the law beyond reason.

HighHorse

4/23/18 8:05am

That's a very hard line approach and should not be the normal in a free society

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:27am

??? a society shouldn't expect people to tell the truth on government forms?

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 7:39am

Society should dole out fair punishments and fair judgments

buffgato

4/23/18 7:41am

What if a person makes an honest mistake on the form because they didn't

Baron

4/23/18 7:43am

You sign your tax return under penalty of perjury. Have you ever made an error

frontrowcougar

4/23/18 8:50am

Is this how you approach everything in life?

byuTX

4/23/18 7:54am

It doesn't matter. If you have fruit you are required to declare it. She lied

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 7:24am

She did not necessarily lie. It would need to be intentional and it does not

Baron

4/23/18 7:26am

Of course she did. The kiosk asks if you have any fruit, vegetables, or plants

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 7:47am

Actually I am and had the interview recently. No such emphasis at all. And you

Baron

4/23/18 7:49am

There is a certain comfort for people who see everything in black and white. Takes less work, thought

byuTX

4/23/18 7:59am

So to be clear, you are saying that declaring that you do not have any fruit,

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:01am

Obviously she made a mistake

buffgato

4/23/18 8:03am

She agreed to that enforcement when she signed up for Global Entry

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:04am

Doesn't make it any less ridiculous. Based on your position, you believe

Baron

4/23/18 8:06am

Not really a valid comparison

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:38am

I get that, but that doesn't mean you have to be the enforcer in every case

buffgato

4/23/18 8:07am

Do you think it deserves a $500 penalty?

HighHorse

4/23/18 8:08am

<< Deleted >>

Indy Coug

4/23/18 8:27am

For somebody with Global Entry? Yes. For somebody without? No.

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:32am

In my experience, GE doesn't get treated that differently at customs.

mik3

4/23/18 10:07am

No. Wow byuTX was clairvoyant on you. Everything black and white.

Baron

4/23/18 8:05am

If you want to champion facts and circumstances, you have to consider all of the

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 10:00am

I'm glad you're not my judge

buffgato

4/23/18 7:26am

He would be a good prosecutor. Ignore the whole issue and focus on guilt.

Baron

4/23/18 7:26am

*terrible prosecutor

byuTX

4/23/18 8:13am

Power to the State!!!

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:29am

What a stupid rule! I’d be pissed too

Colorado

4/23/18 7:22am

Until reading this article it wouldn't have occurred to me at all that I would

Cosmodiar

4/23/18 7:38am

And the likelihood of forgetting about that apple entirely is high

buffgato

4/23/18 7:39am

The Customs Agent should be fired. That clearly goes against the intent of the law

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:46am

"Bringing" suggests you got it prior to the fligh, IMO.

fattycoug

4/23/18 8:10am

The question is if you have any fruit with you

Skeptical Optimist

4/23/18 8:21am

It says are you 'bringing' any fruit. It's easy to assume that it means if you

fattycoug

4/23/18 8:33am

She found out that the gov't defines "bringing" as "crossing the border with an

Six Foot Seven

4/23/18 8:21am

Crazy to me that things are so black and white for some of you guys.

SuperTank

4/23/18 8:31am

I think the big argument isn't the fruit, it's shifting blame instead of owning

jaredm

4/23/18 9:29am

the max fine is $1k. She got $500. Seems reasonable. We need to deter people from sneaking in infected

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 11:07am

Maybe we should ban airlines from giving away infected fruits.

Cosmodiar

4/23/18 11:14am

And apparently we need to deter people from making stupid mistakes too

Colorado

4/23/18 11:22am

There is a court where she can appeal the fine. She used global entry. The standards for her are higher.

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 12:39pm

Do you enjoy the Civil Asset Forfeiture laws too?

HighHorse

4/23/18 7:31pm

Easy for someone in your position to think $500 is reasonable.

SuperTank

4/23/18 11:41am

she's flying with GE - the standards are higher for her - It's very unlikely that if she went through the normal

HarlemCoug

4/23/18 12:37pm

I've declared fruit that I forgot I had until after I got off the plane. You

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