Overheated rhetoric like this makes it hard to have productive discussions.

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May 17, 2018
1:41:29pm

Roko's Basilisk Contributor

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Roko's Basilisk

Bio page: Roko's Basilisk
Joined: Jan 20, 2017
Last login: May 3, 2024
Total posts: 2,381 (5 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

I feel as though the BYU to P5 ship has sailed for good.

LifelongAP

5/16/18 1:30pm

It might be that the current model changes in the future

Nat Gas Man

5/16/18 1:34pm

Things change and change quickly

kimdaddy35

5/16/18 1:35pm

The political landscape and perception of the church isn't changing anytime soon

franklyvulgar

5/16/18 1:42pm

Not sure I agree... while it may seem like that will be the case

kimdaddy35

5/16/18 1:48pm

Lots? An example?

Cougtruth

5/16/18 2:29pm

President Hinckley on 60 mins

kimdaddy35

5/16/18 2:39pm

True but the world and the LDS church have separated significantly more since

Yunit

5/17/18 7:52am

the church gave up all it's good will it had with Prop 8.

coolblue

5/17/18 10:58am

Church can do everything right but still won’t change certain groups views of us.

SlantRoute

5/17/18 9:11am

“Everything right” What does that mean?

Cougtruth

5/17/18 11:20am

I mean even if they do and say the right things

SlantRoute

5/17/18 6:19pm

Agreed. I really, REALLY doubt that any P5 commissioner has the guts to stand

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 2:13pm

Is that like saying the SEC, etc. eventually didn’t have the guts to stand

Cougtruth

5/16/18 2:35pm

This is different

Pretorian

5/17/18 5:43am

Not really. . .

Demosthenes Red

5/17/18 9:25am

You realize that there are gay people on this board ya?

Michigan

5/16/18 3:11pm

yeah but are they pro-gay

rcbyufan

5/16/18 3:14pm

Michigan

5/16/18 3:16pm

RE: Me

rcbyufan

5/16/18 3:23pm

There is a difference between wanting LGBT protections (actually very much

TailgateU

5/16/18 3:26pm

Yep. You nailed it.

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 7:00pm

Wouldn’t you say that gays not being able to marry is being treated unfairly?

SlantRoute

5/17/18 9:13am

It really depends on how you view marriage. If marriage is a social agreement for two people to share a life (legally

SpecialT

5/17/18 9:56am

I guess non religious people shouldn’t get married then?

Michigan

5/17/18 11:27am

The point I see is are we talking about awarding lgbt with all the benefits that

Pretorian

5/17/18 12:21pm

Yes, we’re simply talking legal recognition of companionship trough marriage

SlantRoute

5/18/18 12:20pm

No, I'm saying we need to define marriage as a society and make decisions based on that definition. I think marriage and

SpecialT

5/17/18 12:25pm

<< Deleted >>

Cougtruth

5/17/18 11:02am

There's lots of things legal in all 50 states that aren't ok at BYU.

rcbyufan

5/17/18 11:07am

RE: Same sex marriage is legal in all 50 states. Is it OK at BYU?

Cougtruth

5/17/18 11:11am

That would not be acceptable. Men in cargo shorts would descend on that campus

rcbyufan

5/17/18 11:25am

I don't think he is criticizing gays but he is

Idahofallsblue

5/16/18 3:27pm

Yep, you got it, too.

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 7:00pm

What is the unfair characterization of BYU?

Cougtruth

5/17/18 11:22am

Do you think BYU shld be excluded from P5 based on their stance on homosexualit

Iman23

5/16/18 3:32pm

Absoutely not. Question: Do you think the pro-gay crowd (and when I say...

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 7:08pm

So, to be clear. Someone who identifies as gay can enroll at BYU as long

Cougtruth

5/17/18 10:54am

^^^ding ding ding, we have a winner^^^

zerome4sooners

5/17/18 5:12am

It sailed back in 2011 I never took the recent chatter seriously

franklyvulgar

5/16/18 1:41pm

One thing that won't change: the social issues moving farther and farther

Dangerous

5/16/18 1:41pm

Yep that’s going to be the biggest risk to byu sports in the future imo

cougfanz

5/16/18 2:01pm

Another big risk is the health and concussion issues....the church could end it

Nat Gas Man

5/16/18 2:12pm

Disagree. Sure football is a risk, but so is crossing the street. Lot to be

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 2:14pm

Except that crossing the street is necessary. Catching a leather ball is not.

Traveshamockery

5/16/18 9:14pm

I think some already are not scheduling us, we just get a different excuse

Iman23

5/16/18 4:49pm

We still have stand alone value more than half the P5 schools. There is that

jrifkin48

5/16/18 2:15pm

Damaged goods.

yorksama

5/16/18 2:22pm

It has sailed. If anything I only see contraction in the future.

mudpupper

5/16/18 2:40pm

The uncertainty that you mention may be the thing that changes in our favor.

TailgateU

5/16/18 3:10pm

My sure to be controversial take is that the church may eventually move into the

Roko's Basilisk

5/16/18 3:31pm

I think on this one you might be wrong. The church has been too definitive to

Idahofallsblue

5/16/18 3:37pm

I remember two issues where the culture was committed to one

Archaea

5/16/18 5:29pm

If you review the history of social involvement and social issues

Archaea

5/16/18 5:27pm

The church would close down temples before that would happen.

Wear Blue

5/16/18 7:40pm

I have a different take: It doesn't matter to me

DazeofBlue

5/17/18 4:58pm

No way. LGBTQ and eternal families are not compatible..

idcougarfan

5/16/18 5:42pm

Under current understanding, but there is a lot more to understand.

Archaea

5/16/18 5:48pm

it takes a man and a woman to procreate. There is no way the church will

idcougarfan

5/16/18 8:35pm

I am not wise enough to know the entirety of the eternities

Archaea

5/17/18 10:03am

Yep.

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 7:17pm

The LDS church accept gay temple marriage? Just who do u think runs the church?

BleedCougarBlue2

5/16/18 7:16pm

Um. Have you read the proclamation on the family?

Orem58thBall

5/16/18 9:25pm

Nobody knows the future. My only point is that we have a history of culture

Roko's Basilisk

5/16/18 9:56pm

Thank you for this post ⬆️

Michigan

5/16/18 10:47pm

This statement from then-Elder Oaks seems unambiguous (oct 2017)

HRCougar

5/16/18 11:45pm

Roko has a point - there also wasn't "wiggle room" with a lot of the statements

jaba166

5/17/18 3:37am

Huge, huge difference between Brigham Young’s statements

HRCougar

5/17/18 5:51am

The difference is that it was a small church then vs a large beurocracy now

jrj84105

5/17/18 8:41am

True.

Archaea

5/17/18 10:09am

Not sure I agree with that much

HRCougar

5/17/18 10:29am

Unbelievable. I'm amazed at the number high-minded Saints who point their noses

Ash

5/17/18 12:57pm

Overheated rhetoric like this makes it hard to have productive discussions.

Roko's Basilisk

5/17/18 1:41pm

It's not overheated. It's a poignant observation. I completely agree with you

Ash

5/17/18 1:55pm

I think our disagreement is around the authority and staying power of the

Roko's Basilisk

5/17/18 2:54pm

I do find the change in wording to be interesting.

Idahofallsblue

5/17/18 4:53pm

Inference is a VERY powerful force in the church culture, involving anything

jaba166

5/17/18 11:00pm

“Assault” lol

Michigan

5/17/18 5:25pm

Now there's a thought that may deserve contemplation.

jaba166

5/17/18 10:54pm

What's your take on the Ten Suggestions?

CougarThug

5/16/18 10:51pm

Your take is definitely in the minority my brother. But please, don't base your

CObluezone

5/17/18 5:03am

The best thing to do is to remember the core belief of I am a son of God and any situation that gets between you and bec

nybyblue

5/17/18 5:42am

Let's play your game out

jollaksentie

5/17/18 6:26am

That is the day I will no longer believe in the church. The family unit is too

coolblue

5/17/18 6:38am

Lots of people have left, and will continue to leave, when the church makes -

Demosthenes Red

5/17/18 9:48am

Good point other than if a "continuing revelation" came that was contrary to

coolblue

5/17/18 11:17am

I think continuing revelation IS one of the core tenants of Mormonism. It's one of the Articles of Faith.

mvtoro

5/17/18 5:48pm

Coolblue, I appreciate your perspective, brother. Thanks for sharing.

Demosthenes Red

5/17/18 10:12pm

Sounds like your faith isn’t in the savior

Michigan

5/17/18 11:24am

That is a really stupid comment. I would still have faith in Christ. It's

coolblue

5/17/18 2:10pm

Sounds like you don’t have faith in the brethren then

Michigan

5/17/18 5:25pm

Well, in fairness, if it ever did happen you would need to get your own witness

Ash

5/17/18 12:59pm

Holding dear to false doctrines is where most of the world is today.

coolblue

5/17/18 2:15pm

The most basic fundamental core doctrine of eternal increase is agency, the

jaba166

5/17/18 11:23pm

Unbelievable, the number of high minded saints who would question the wisdom

jrj84105

5/18/18 4:51am

Because the brethren have never been off base before. For a

Michigan

5/18/18 9:15am

It’s true. We like to picture the brethren of the past and present as superheros

LifelongAP

5/18/18 4:17pm

Like arguing with my 10 year old. There's a semblance of truth yet the analogies

Ash

5/18/18 9:47am

"move into the mainstream" may be too strong

teancum

5/17/18 9:42am

Congrats, it only took 6 years to understand that BOT/AD screwed up in 2012.

blackshirts

5/16/18 3:37pm

I sometimes wonder if you're right.

Idahofallsblue

5/16/18 3:46pm

You're absolutely right

reddead

5/16/18 4:00pm

And the thought of all that makes me want to vomit

Idahofallsblue

5/16/18 4:14pm

I think this is exactly what happened.

Kingfisher

5/16/18 9:01pm

I think the BOT was confused. In 2010 they approved going independent and joining the WCC. They were sold that this was

SpiffCoug

5/16/18 10:02pm

I actually don't think it was the BOT...I think BYU screwed up after the MWC

Nat Gas Man

5/16/18 10:09pm

What smoke was there in 2010?

LifelongAP

5/17/18 12:19am

It's gone

Countcougula

5/16/18 3:44pm

The NCAA as it once was has sailed. It is becoming more political.

Refugee

5/16/18 4:14pm

I feel like this could all be beneficial to BYU.

Oranje

5/16/18 7:48pm

Winning fixes everything

Pretorian

5/16/18 8:32pm

^^This^^

Oranje

5/16/18 8:36pm

Kinda sad but USU will be P5 before US

CougarWildcat

5/16/18 9:56pm

Don't Worry

hms_ben

5/16/18 10:50pm

When the MWC gets elevated to Power Conference status.

Big Time 55

5/17/18 6:15am

exactly, and that happens right after the Browns have the MVP QB

Pretorian

5/17/18 8:27am

In the Celestial Kingdom, BYU-H will be a P5.

Cougtruth

5/17/18 11:36am

Cue the applause in Ogden.

CougarThug

5/16/18 10:59pm

As the population of Utah explodes

CougarWildcat

5/17/18 1:22pm

I believe that you are correct.

hms_ben

5/16/18 10:49pm

Where've you been?

Y4LYFE

5/17/18 8:22am

I believe if they were going to be in, they’d already be in

SlantRoute

5/17/18 9:10am

I thought that when the Big 12 decided not to expand

AxelDC

5/17/18 11:21am

Has somebody already said, “The situation is fluid.”?

UNHuskerCoug

5/17/18 11:36am

Like glass

AxelDC

5/17/18 12:35pm

I think it is likely that BYU makes it into the P5 ...

Rize Alloyal

5/17/18 11:51am

TCU ended up in the Big 12

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