I think we agree that (1) capitalism > socialism and (2) capitalism still has some problems that can be rectified via

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Jan 16, 2023
9:46:34pm

Odysseus Truly Addicted User

I think we agree that (1) capitalism > socialism and (2) capitalism still has some problems that can be rectified via

some social programs.

The debate is really about the type, number, and magnitude of those social programs.

Your OP and some of the responses seemed to push a bit into the “let them eat cake” territory though. I’d be curious to see more data about upward mobility in the US.

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Odysseus

Previous username: THUNDERDOME69
Bio page: Odysseus
Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Last login: May 19, 2024
Total posts: 32,969 (11,524 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

The rich get richer & the poor ... do too. The true story of poverty in the USA.

YSMACK

1/16/23 6:16pm

It all boils down to jealousy. Poor in the US is a moving goal post every year.

SausageKing

1/16/23 6:21pm

And... "the 1%" aren't 1 percenters for much of their life. Most 1%ers are in the 1% for one year... they sell a

HarlemCoug

1/16/23 6:24pm

What’s defined as the 1%?

kotacoug

1/16/23 6:38pm

The IRS takes all tax filers for the year and then figures out what AGI was reached by just 1% of all households.

HarlemCoug

1/16/23 7:00pm

When the poor have an obesity problem are they really poor?

kotacoug

1/16/23 6:38pm

In the US? Yes.

Eddie

1/16/23 6:45pm

Unfortunately, it's cheaper to eat unhealthy foods than healthier options.

GA_Coug

1/16/23 9:57pm

by example, when I go diving in the Philippines, I try to be genuine, but also generous. On one of our first trips, we

ChinaFan

1/16/23 6:49pm

That’s a good argument that no one is really satisfied with. For some reason humans are wired for comparisons and status

Odysseus

1/16/23 6:55pm

It's certainly relative. The biggest issue is lack purpose and with the safety

johnnybyu

1/16/23 7:34pm

Even with that warped viewpoint the poor are WAY better off.

YSMACK

1/16/23 8:48pm

Everyone looks at the world through comparison. Most of the people on this thread nodding their heads about how well off

Odysseus

1/16/23 9:01pm

The third point includes comparison.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:21pm

I think we agree that (1) capitalism > socialism and (2) capitalism still has some problems that can be rectified via

Odysseus

1/16/23 9:46pm

Upward mobility, in particular, makes USA the best country for the poor.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:52pm

In your last paragraph, I’d be curious to see how that data was observed. For example, I grew up in a top 20% household

Odysseus

1/16/23 9:57pm

Yes, age demographics play a big part (in all countries)

YSMACK

1/16/23 10:00pm

Also, that isn't the argument at all.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:24pm

well, the bigger part of the problem is that a good number of those promoting this dialogue are spoiled brats who don't

ChinaFan

1/16/23 9:35pm

it's also worth pointing out that for many they aren't pour because they're oppressed... they're poor because they're

HarlemCoug

1/17/23 12:09am

Nailed it.

Mitty

1/16/23 11:53pm

When I would tel people in my mission the poor had cars, homes, free food,

Bobmarleyjr

1/16/23 7:11pm

The abundant wealth in the US may be the worst thing for the poor. People don't

johnnybyu

1/16/23 7:36pm

Some have run with the word equality to think it means we should all be equal in assets, but the phrase

BW84

1/16/23 8:54pm

The difference is that fewer people can change their position in other markets

YSMACK

1/16/23 8:57pm

It’s a cop out to compare the poor in the US with the poor in a 3d world country

demon_llama

1/16/23 9:18pm

LOL. No it isn't. You're completely missing the point.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:29pm

Also, those stats don't show us better than just in 3rd world countries

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:38pm

My point is that arguments like this tend to shut down discussion

demon_llama

1/17/23 6:44am

The point is, there is no system that does better at helping the poor

PROBcoug

1/17/23 8:24am

Probably true. But I'm also interested in what the poor think about it.

demon_llama

1/17/23 10:59am

If they have food, home, education, what else do they need?

Bobmarleyjr

1/17/23 12:46pm

They also have 2 tvs, washer, dryer, dishwasher, oven, ref., HVAC, game console

YSMACK

1/17/23 1:10pm

Such a sad way of looking at the world

Backcountry

1/16/23 9:34pm

so, in what way is that a cop out? It's a fact, and sure, we should work to help the poor get out of poverty, no one

ChinaFan

1/16/23 9:37pm

He clearly doesn't understand the conversation.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:43pm

The US also has tremendous resources and geography which allows our system to thrive despite its flaws

Odysseus

1/16/23 9:48pm

I don't think that is a valid explanation for the difference. Look at China

YSMACK

1/16/23 10:10pm

Small quibble, the US is not a “free market”.

sammyh72

1/16/23 9:55pm

Fair enough, but I don't think that really changes the conversation much.

YSMACK

1/16/23 9:56pm

The homeless with mental health issues are very much stuck in poverty.

VenomFarmer

1/16/23 10:00pm

I 100% agree with that, but that is a different kind of problem.

YSMACK

1/16/23 10:04pm

Fine, but saying attention to the gap is a "bad way of looking at it" is just

Mitty

1/16/23 11:53pm

John Stossel did a great report on this too. Total myth.

1/17/23 7:12am

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