I've seen the seminary recommendation portion. There is a lot of room for

Mar 9, 2018
7:18:16am

BYUMizzou All-American

the seminary teacher to help a student or hurt their application. This is something that the student has nearly no control over. A seminary teacher who thinks they're being "tough but fair" could significantly impact an application for a highly qualified student.

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BYUMizzou

Previous username: Mark Harlan
Bio page: BYUMizzou
Joined: Aug 25, 2010
Last login: Jun 17, 2024
Total posts: 38,456 (8,709 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

For those interested, the rest of the story...

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:04pm

How did Korihor get put in charge of admissions?

dadofkhec

3/8/18 10:09pm

I don't get it.

korihor

3/9/18 6:18am

Wow. Makes no sense that he qualifies for a scholarship but not for admittance.

Capricious Cougar

3/8/18 10:16pm

I understand that better than him not getting in. Scholarships aren't awarded

gwalker

3/9/18 9:57am

My understanding is he qualified for an academic scholarship.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 10:25am

Some of the academic scholarships have a need based component to them

gwalker

3/9/18 10:30am

Mostly the academic scholarships aren't needs based.

CougarMandias

3/9/18 11:50am

Not true of one year full and full year half.

gwalker

3/9/18 7:18pm

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are doing some type of quota per gpa/act

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:17pm

Could be. Wish we knew.

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:38pm

The people on CB who think there are too many smart kids at BYU

panguitch

3/9/18 8:12am

There is something wrong with the process that he hasn't been admitted. If he - with his qualifications - doesn't get in

Zenoch

3/8/18 10:17pm

If that is the case it would be great to know. BYU has assured us that we will

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:37pm

In the absence of ever knowing, I think the most likely cause

Paco

3/8/18 10:44pm

My bet is on the last one you mentioned. I hate to even think that, but it's

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:51pm

This is harsh but there are a lot of people who resent success

VenetianCougar

3/8/18 10:56pm

What you say is harsh but that doesn't make it less true.

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:08pm

What could a seminary teacher say that would torpedo

kotacoug

3/8/18 11:17pm

We don't know. And we'll never know.

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:40pm

I suggest that he should attend BYU summer semester as a visiting student

TCuz

3/8/18 11:44pm

Why can't you know. Just ask the seminary teacher what they wrote.

jvquarterback

3/9/18 1:32pm

If a bishop can't make comments, why should a seminary teacher be able to?

panguitch

3/9/18 8:15am

A very good question. From my own experience and that of my kids, the quality of

gwalker

3/9/18 10:06am

A seminary teacher having that much power is misguided.

Archaea

3/9/18 1:04pm

Get transferable credits at another university.

Archaea

3/9/18 1:03pm

you're correct--you have none, so this whole line of speculation can do nothing except generate a whole bunch of

BYUtiful

3/9/18 1:09pm

Well, if he has other children that may wish to apply, he is more informed of

Archaea

3/9/18 1:17pm

he's more informed how? he has zero additional insight, just lots of speculation

BYUtiful

3/9/18 1:39pm

He now knows what's involved in the process; he obviously has suspicions

Archaea

3/9/18 5:15pm

Based off of posts last Saturday, lots of kids with lower qualifications got

dilbert

3/8/18 10:55pm

Thanks. So it could have just been a mistake, which seems like the most

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:18pm

I am going to go with clerical error on the ACT test

BIG XII Coug

3/8/18 10:20pm

Well maybe not the case here, it certainly can happen. It wasn't until my wife

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:28am

Let me clarify. They did confirm with us that the grades and ACT score they

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:34pm

Make you wonder what the other teacher said in his review. Would he/she have

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:36pm

Maybe, but doubt it. Whenever I am asked to submit a LoR for admissions or a

unctoothman

3/9/18 6:48am

Yeah, but it could still be they were supposed to throw it in the "yes" pile on

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:38pm

Ah, I see what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying. I would hope that the

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:19pm

Thanks for the update.

BostonCougar

3/8/18 10:19pm

<< Deleted >>

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:28pm

Please do. I hope it works out for them.

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:35pm

Several uber wealthy donors in our stake failed to persuade admissions last year

bluelands

3/9/18 7:57am

<< Deleted >>

Pasadena

3/11/18 4:48pm

BYU can change how they evaluate candidates - BUT they have to be very clear and transparent what the changes are

Zenoch

3/11/18 5:08pm

Essays are the easiest part to game.

VenetianCougar

3/11/18 6:30pm

I would put essays at the last. Leadership, recommendations, extracurricular activities, etc should come before essays

Zenoch

3/11/18 6:37pm

Yeah probably true. Both far behind grades and ACT

VenetianCougar

3/11/18 6:58pm

<< Deleted >>

rivercitycoug

3/8/18 10:39pm

Sounds like we should just expect byu to work like a lottery now.

runnincoug

3/8/18 10:40pm

I find this admissions secrecy very unsettling. Don't we have a right to know

mudpupper

3/8/18 10:42pm

Ecclesiastical endorsement process

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/8/18 10:49pm

<< Deleted >>

SanDiegoCoug

3/9/18 2:16pm

It's not there anymore

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/9/18 4:10pm

<< Deleted >>

SanDiegoCoug

3/9/18 4:14pm

Why in the world does a seminary teach get to provide more input than the Bishop

mudpupper

3/8/18 10:52pm

Who spends much more time with the kid? Especially in early morning

byubyu

3/8/18 10:57pm

More time does not equal "know better" in this case

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/8/18 11:04pm

The seminary teacher gets to spend more time with kids, that may not be the time when the kid is at his/ her best.

Texas Hammer

3/9/18 5:39am

Who is entitled to receive inspiration about the kid? This is the only time the

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:16am

I never had a seminary teacher who was close to me

panguitch

3/9/18 8:19am

Probably because Bishop's remarks could be considered

coldcoug

3/9/18 9:33am

Excellent point.

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:45am

So, it seems pretty clear they thought he fell short in one area that was not

idacoug

3/8/18 10:46pm

His GPA was almost a full point below last year's average...

TCuz

3/8/18 10:51pm

A full point? He was at 3.77 right?

VenetianCougar

3/8/18 10:53pm

Probably meant tenth of a point.

soupie

3/8/18 10:55pm

2017 average was 3.86. I said almost. *I did mean a .1 of a point

TCuz

3/8/18 10:55pm

That should not have tipped the scale.

VenetianCougar

3/8/18 10:59pm

Like I said, with a 34 I would've thought it was good enough. But it's a factor

TCuz

3/8/18 11:03pm

I've seen examples like this for years. My guess is that

cujo22

3/9/18 9:30am

yes, people on this board argued for a lottery. Well, you more or less got it.

runnincoug

3/9/18 9:49am

Kid in my ward just got in with a 26 also, and similar GPA.

CougarMandias

3/9/18 9:52am

And then BYU wonders why some students are struggling to

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:55pm

Very good point.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 7:43am

Lol. Good luck with transparency.

idacoug

3/8/18 10:56pm

You are correct. His unweighted GPA was below the average. We made a

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:58pm

It's obvious that he checked the boxes academically. Your thoughts on the

Ulysses14

3/9/18 5:13am

Were the harder classes in the form of AP or IB classes?

kccougar

3/9/18 7:20am

They were all AP. Calculus, physics, US Hist, World Hist, etc.

atlcougar

3/9/18 7:37am

Seems like the decision for harder classes paid off with awesome ACT score.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 7:44am

Not with the number of AP classes he took

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 5:51am

Something else sealed the deal, but I agree GPA must have been a factor.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 6:36am

I bet less than 5% of incoming freshman at BYU have over a 3.9 unweighted with

unctoothman

3/9/18 6:55am

True many kids probably couldn't take 11 AP classes even if they wanted to.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 7:04am

I think he could have been valedictorian and it wouldn't have mattered.

VenetianCougar

3/9/18 7:11am

Yup, that has to be it. Choose your recommendations carefully!

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:11am

Could be. Unfortunately we don't really know anything.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 7:25am

We called last fall about this and were told that AP classes tremendously help

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:11am

I'm still angry on your behalf. So insane.

VenetianCougar

3/8/18 10:51pm

Sounds to me like BYU has become elitist. I'd go to Yale and in my graduation

BYUALWAYSNUM1

3/8/18 10:58pm

Funny you mention Yale. We just found out tonight that a running back from our

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:01pm

Actually, it sounds like they haven't. Rumors of "holistic" approach and not

fattycoug

3/9/18 2:17am

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means

StantonMac

3/9/18 9:10am

Oh, he's a nerd. He does a mean Homestar Runner impression.

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:30am

Interesting and scary. Thank you for sharing and tone.

Tango

3/8/18 11:08pm

Hopefully your son has a similar attitude as you

boorad

3/8/18 11:08pm

What a great story. We've had so many others reach out to us with similar

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:16pm

I sincerely hope they don't start using the essays and recommendations as the primary factor in admissions.

NihonCougar

3/8/18 11:20pm

I'm with you. I even had a fellow CBer read his essays a few days ago to see if

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:45pm

100% agreed. For me, your son was an auto admit. Had he been a border-line

byuwahoo

3/9/18 11:32am

The essay rewards BSers and kids whose admission coaches massage it

CougarMandias

3/9/18 9:59am

More and more people are having essays professional 'reviewed'

kotacoug

3/9/18 10:42am

That’s my concern with college essays. They reward kids who are coached.

Paco

3/9/18 10:51am

of course, the same is true with grades and ACT scores too. Those with coaching

runnincoug

3/9/18 11:26am

Yeah, but worse with essays. Much worse IMO.

Paco

3/9/18 11:46am

Perhaps we erred by not reviewing his essays or seeking out a coach. I didn't

atlcougar

3/9/18 11:44am

Good for you.

CougarMandias

3/9/18 11:52am

RE: Perhaps we erred by not reviewing his essays or seeking out a coach. I

plymouth

3/14/18 7:47pm

Thanks for the excellent writeup. Bummed for you guys, but hope that somehow

David Lo Pan

3/8/18 11:25pm

I appreciate the well wishes. I think I've used up my allotment of

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:48pm

Any chance of classes at the Salt Lake Campus?

IGlowInTheDark

3/9/18 3:54am

Why do that? Why not have a great freshman

Cougarealist

3/9/18 6:57am

In a year or two, you will know why, and it probably has nothing to do with

Mister P

3/9/18 4:56am

One more q - any insight on where he'll go first?

VenetianCougar

3/9/18 5:13am

I have no specific insight into this situation, but I do know someone high up in admissions very well.

El Jefe

3/9/18 6:47am

This is the worst of all in my view

VenetianCougar

3/9/18 6:49am

Yeah I'm totally against that idea.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 6:54am

That’s right.

conetah

3/9/18 6:59am

Im sure this POV is shared by the HCO too

Cougarealist

3/9/18 7:02am

I’m sure.

conetah

3/9/18 7:04am

I guess that's one way to read it.

El Jefe

3/9/18 7:21am

Either that or there are bureaucrats in the ASB

Cougarealist

3/9/18 7:01am

I would think that would be up to somebody who has Priesthood stewardship over

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:15am

Here is what the admission person is thinking:

conetah

3/9/18 7:33am

And if that admissions person has been given priesthood keys or was set apary

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:35am

RE: And if that admissions person has been given priesthood keys or was set

conetah

3/9/18 8:33am

I don't think there are keys for that

Cougarealist

3/9/18 8:35am

I've seen the seminary recommendation portion. There is a lot of room for

BYUMizzou

3/9/18 7:18am

It seems like if that is the reason they should tell the applicant.

Icecat

3/9/18 7:45am

They may. I really have no idea about whether they inform the person in these cases.

El Jefe

3/9/18 9:10am

I agree we shouldn't assume the worst

CBaass

3/9/18 8:12am

I'm trying to be better about that

El Jefe

3/9/18 9:11am

So apostles decide where you spend two years. Anonymous employees

panguitch

3/9/18 8:26am

If your son is set on a "freshman experience" this is all probably for the best anyway

kccougar

3/9/18 7:28am

I thought similarly when they made the age change for missions.

atlcougar

3/9/18 7:48am

My son is a freshman at BYU this year----and it has been awesome for him

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/9/18 8:04am

Amen. My freshman year guys all wrote each other on the mission

CougarMandias

3/9/18 10:01am

One comment on teacher recommendations

bluelands

3/9/18 7:53am

With regards to the Ecclesiastical endorsement, there hasn't really been room

Still Open

3/9/18 8:25am

Wouldn't be surprised if essay #4 is the clincher

panguitch

3/9/18 8:34am

Admissions essays are almost always where the final decisions are made.

Still Open

3/9/18 8:37am

This was very interesting to read. Although I'm a graduate of BYU there is no

cowhide

3/9/18 8:38am

There are allowances for the academic standards of athletes but they're still higher than other schools.

soupie

3/9/18 8:43am

I guess I'm proud of the fact that our standards are so high, but I don't think

cowhide

3/9/18 8:58am

In more ways than one.

soupie

3/9/18 9:09am

Ecclesiastical requirements maybe the biggest thing.

kotacoug

3/9/18 9:09am

Wow, I would never have gotten into BYU if I had today's standards.

Machiavelli

3/9/18 9:04am

Are you guys from Utah by chance? Perhaps they're trying to push for diversity

Machiavelli

3/9/18 9:05am

East coast. Atlanta I think he said.

kotacoug

3/9/18 9:08am

We're from GA. We do like chicken and waffles, shrimp and grits, and fried

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:09am

Sign me up!

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 9:15am

I am sending this to my teenagers. Thank you!

CougarMandias

3/9/18 9:45am

We hope that our experience can be helpful in some way to others. Best of luck

atlcougar

3/9/18 10:00am

BYU is only going to get tougher and tougher to get into. Kids need to have 2 back-up plans now.

Turnpike Lane

3/9/18 9:54am

Wonder if the 53% acceptance rate will hold up.

coldcoug

3/9/18 10:04am

It was under 50% previously. The year my oldest got in was first year that happened.

Turnpike Lane

3/9/18 10:11am

IMO, if it's really important for a kid to go to school with an honor code and

Byron McNertney

3/9/18 10:12am

And folks bag on BYU-I, but seriously ... it's a great school.

runnincoug

3/9/18 10:17am

I didn’t like BYU-I too much. Academically it’s a completely different

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 11:30am

Have your son ask the the seminary teacher and other teachers what they wrote.

jvquarterback

3/9/18 10:20am

I am not as surprised as others

allystake

3/9/18 10:29am

Good post, but when looking at the GPA/ACT combo atlcougar's son was far above

byuwahoo

3/9/18 6:33pm

Crazy. Thanks for the update. My wife works in college and grad school prep so

ArchbishopMitty

3/9/18 10:39am

I wonder when the admissions pendulum will swing back a rational process

byuwahoo

3/9/18 11:36am

I don't think any admissions committee is ever truly rational

buffgato

3/9/18 1:07pm

Absurd. BYU needs to change. The best students should get admitted. This "holistic" stuff is garbage.

HarlemCoug

3/9/18 12:44pm

So, where is he going now?

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