Absurd. BYU needs to change. The best students should get admitted. This "holistic" stuff is garbage.

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Mar 9, 2018
12:44:01pm

HarlemCoug Playmaker

Absurd. BYU needs to change. The best students should get admitted. This "holistic" stuff is garbage.

This message has been modified

Originally posted on Mar 9, 2018 at 12:44:01pm

Message modified by HarlemCoug on Mar 9, 2018 at 12:45:07pm

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HarlemCoug

Previous username: Big12
Bio page: HarlemCoug
Joined: Sep 8, 2014
Last login: May 18, 2024
Total posts: 32,413 (4,060 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

For those interested, the rest of the story...

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:04pm

How did Korihor get put in charge of admissions?

dadofkhec

3/8/18 10:09pm

I don't get it.

korihor

3/9/18 6:18am

Wow. Makes no sense that he qualifies for a scholarship but not for admittance.

Capricious Cougar

3/8/18 10:16pm

I understand that better than him not getting in. Scholarships aren't awarded

gwalker

3/9/18 9:57am

My understanding is he qualified for an academic scholarship.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 10:25am

Some of the academic scholarships have a need based component to them

gwalker

3/9/18 10:30am

Mostly the academic scholarships aren't needs based.

3/9/18 11:50am

Not true of one year full and full year half.

gwalker

3/9/18 7:18pm

Thanks for the update. Sounds like they are doing some type of quota per gpa/act

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:17pm

Could be. Wish we knew.

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:38pm

The people on CB who think there are too many smart kids at BYU

panguitch

3/9/18 8:12am

There is something wrong with the process that he hasn't been admitted. If he - with his qualifications - doesn't get in

Zenoch

3/8/18 10:17pm

If that is the case it would be great to know. BYU has assured us that we will

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:37pm

In the absence of ever knowing, I think the most likely cause

Paco

3/8/18 10:44pm

My bet is on the last one you mentioned. I hate to even think that, but it's

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:51pm

This is harsh but there are a lot of people who resent success

3/8/18 10:56pm

What you say is harsh but that doesn't make it less true.

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:08pm

What could a seminary teacher say that would torpedo

kotacoug

3/8/18 11:17pm

We don't know. And we'll never know.

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:40pm

I suggest that he should attend BYU summer semester as a visiting student

TCuz

3/8/18 11:44pm

Why can't you know. Just ask the seminary teacher what they wrote.

jvquarterback

3/9/18 1:32pm

If a bishop can't make comments, why should a seminary teacher be able to?

panguitch

3/9/18 8:15am

A very good question. From my own experience and that of my kids, the quality of

gwalker

3/9/18 10:06am

A seminary teacher having that much power is misguided.

Archaea

3/9/18 1:04pm

Get transferable credits at another university.

Archaea

3/9/18 1:03pm

you're correct--you have none, so this whole line of speculation can do nothing except generate a whole bunch of

BYUtiful

3/9/18 1:09pm

Well, if he has other children that may wish to apply, he is more informed of

Archaea

3/9/18 1:17pm

he's more informed how? he has zero additional insight, just lots of speculation

BYUtiful

3/9/18 1:39pm

He now knows what's involved in the process; he obviously has suspicions

Archaea

3/9/18 5:15pm

Based off of posts last Saturday, lots of kids with lower qualifications got

dilbert

3/8/18 10:55pm

Thanks. So it could have just been a mistake, which seems like the most

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:18pm

I am going to go with clerical error on the ACT test

3/8/18 10:20pm

Well maybe not the case here, it certainly can happen. It wasn't until my wife

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:28am

Let me clarify. They did confirm with us that the grades and ACT score they

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:34pm

Make you wonder what the other teacher said in his review. Would he/she have

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:36pm

Maybe, but doubt it. Whenever I am asked to submit a LoR for admissions or a

unctoothman

3/9/18 6:48am

Yeah, but it could still be they were supposed to throw it in the "yes" pile on

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:38pm

Ah, I see what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying. I would hope that the

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:19pm

Thanks for the update.

3/8/18 10:19pm

<< Deleted >>

Pasadena

3/8/18 10:28pm

Please do. I hope it works out for them.

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:35pm

Several uber wealthy donors in our stake failed to persuade admissions last year

bluelands

3/9/18 7:57am

<< Deleted >>

Pasadena

3/11/18 4:48pm

BYU can change how they evaluate candidates - BUT they have to be very clear and transparent what the changes are

Zenoch

3/11/18 5:08pm

Essays are the easiest part to game.

3/11/18 6:30pm

I would put essays at the last. Leadership, recommendations, extracurricular activities, etc should come before essays

Zenoch

3/11/18 6:37pm

Yeah probably true. Both far behind grades and ACT

3/11/18 6:58pm

<< Deleted >>

3/8/18 10:39pm

Sounds like we should just expect byu to work like a lottery now.

runnincoug

3/8/18 10:40pm

I find this admissions secrecy very unsettling. Don't we have a right to know

mudpupper

3/8/18 10:42pm

Ecclesiastical endorsement process

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/8/18 10:49pm

<< Deleted >>

3/9/18 2:16pm

It's not there anymore

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/9/18 4:10pm

<< Deleted >>

3/9/18 4:14pm

Why in the world does a seminary teach get to provide more input than the Bishop

mudpupper

3/8/18 10:52pm

Who spends much more time with the kid? Especially in early morning

byubyu

3/8/18 10:57pm

More time does not equal "know better" in this case

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/8/18 11:04pm

The seminary teacher gets to spend more time with kids, that may not be the time when the kid is at his/ her best.

3/9/18 5:39am

Who is entitled to receive inspiration about the kid? This is the only time the

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:16am

I never had a seminary teacher who was close to me

panguitch

3/9/18 8:19am

Probably because Bishop's remarks could be considered

coldcoug

3/9/18 9:33am

Excellent point.

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:45am

So, it seems pretty clear they thought he fell short in one area that was not

idacoug

3/8/18 10:46pm

His GPA was almost a full point below last year's average...

TCuz

3/8/18 10:51pm

A full point? He was at 3.77 right?

3/8/18 10:53pm

Probably meant tenth of a point.

soupie

3/8/18 10:55pm

2017 average was 3.86. I said almost. *I did mean a .1 of a point

TCuz

3/8/18 10:55pm

That should not have tipped the scale.

3/8/18 10:59pm

Like I said, with a 34 I would've thought it was good enough. But it's a factor

TCuz

3/8/18 11:03pm

I've seen examples like this for years. My guess is that

cujo22

3/9/18 9:30am

yes, people on this board argued for a lottery. Well, you more or less got it.

runnincoug

3/9/18 9:49am

Kid in my ward just got in with a 26 also, and similar GPA.

3/9/18 9:52am

And then BYU wonders why some students are struggling to

kotacoug

3/8/18 10:55pm

Very good point.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 7:43am

Lol. Good luck with transparency.

idacoug

3/8/18 10:56pm

You are correct. His unweighted GPA was below the average. We made a

atlcougar

3/8/18 10:58pm

It's obvious that he checked the boxes academically. Your thoughts on the

Ulysses14

3/9/18 5:13am

Were the harder classes in the form of AP or IB classes?

kccougar

3/9/18 7:20am

They were all AP. Calculus, physics, US Hist, World Hist, etc.

atlcougar

3/9/18 7:37am

Seems like the decision for harder classes paid off with awesome ACT score.

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 7:44am

Not with the number of AP classes he took

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 5:51am

Something else sealed the deal, but I agree GPA must have been a factor.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 6:36am

I bet less than 5% of incoming freshman at BYU have over a 3.9 unweighted with

unctoothman

3/9/18 6:55am

True many kids probably couldn't take 11 AP classes even if they wanted to.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 7:04am

I think he could have been valedictorian and it wouldn't have mattered.

3/9/18 7:11am

Yup, that has to be it. Choose your recommendations carefully!

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:11am

Could be. Unfortunately we don't really know anything.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 7:25am

We called last fall about this and were told that AP classes tremendously help

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:11am

I'm still angry on your behalf. So insane.

3/8/18 10:51pm

Sounds to me like BYU has become elitist. I'd go to Yale and in my graduation

3/8/18 10:58pm

Funny you mention Yale. We just found out tonight that a running back from our

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:01pm

Actually, it sounds like they haven't. Rumors of "holistic" approach and not

fattycoug

3/9/18 2:17am

I'm not sure that word means what you think it means

StantonMac

3/9/18 9:10am

Oh, he's a nerd. He does a mean Homestar Runner impression.

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:30am

Interesting and scary. Thank you for sharing and tone.

Tango

3/8/18 11:08pm

Hopefully your son has a similar attitude as you

boorad

3/8/18 11:08pm

What a great story. We've had so many others reach out to us with similar

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:16pm

I sincerely hope they don't start using the essays and recommendations as the primary factor in admissions.

NihonCougar

3/8/18 11:20pm

I'm with you. I even had a fellow CBer read his essays a few days ago to see if

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:45pm

100% agreed. For me, your son was an auto admit. Had he been a border-line

byuwahoo

3/9/18 11:32am

The essay rewards BSers and kids whose admission coaches massage it

3/9/18 9:59am

More and more people are having essays professional 'reviewed'

kotacoug

3/9/18 10:42am

That’s my concern with college essays. They reward kids who are coached.

Paco

3/9/18 10:51am

of course, the same is true with grades and ACT scores too. Those with coaching

runnincoug

3/9/18 11:26am

Yeah, but worse with essays. Much worse IMO.

Paco

3/9/18 11:46am

Perhaps we erred by not reviewing his essays or seeking out a coach. I didn't

atlcougar

3/9/18 11:44am

Good for you.

3/9/18 11:52am

RE: Perhaps we erred by not reviewing his essays or seeking out a coach. I

plymouth

3/14/18 7:47pm

Thanks for the excellent writeup. Bummed for you guys, but hope that somehow

David Lo Pan

3/8/18 11:25pm

I appreciate the well wishes. I think I've used up my allotment of

atlcougar

3/8/18 11:48pm

Any chance of classes at the Salt Lake Campus?

3/9/18 3:54am

Why do that? Why not have a great freshman

3/9/18 6:57am

In a year or two, you will know why, and it probably has nothing to do with

Mister P

3/9/18 4:56am

One more q - any insight on where he'll go first?

3/9/18 5:13am

I have no specific insight into this situation, but I do know someone high up in admissions very well.

El Jefe

3/9/18 6:47am

This is the worst of all in my view

3/9/18 6:49am

Yeah I'm totally against that idea.

JuicyJam

3/9/18 6:54am

That’s right.

conetah

3/9/18 6:59am

Im sure this POV is shared by the HCO too

3/9/18 7:02am

I’m sure.

conetah

3/9/18 7:04am

I guess that's one way to read it.

El Jefe

3/9/18 7:21am

Either that or there are bureaucrats in the ASB

3/9/18 7:01am

I would think that would be up to somebody who has Priesthood stewardship over

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 7:15am

Here is what the admission person is thinking:

conetah

3/9/18 7:33am

And if that admissions person has been given priesthood keys or was set apary

unctoothman

3/9/18 7:35am

RE: And if that admissions person has been given priesthood keys or was set

conetah

3/9/18 8:33am

I don't think there are keys for that

3/9/18 8:35am

I've seen the seminary recommendation portion. There is a lot of room for

BYUMizzou

3/9/18 7:18am

It seems like if that is the reason they should tell the applicant.

Icecat

3/9/18 7:45am

They may. I really have no idea about whether they inform the person in these cases.

El Jefe

3/9/18 9:10am

I agree we shouldn't assume the worst

CBaass

3/9/18 8:12am

I'm trying to be better about that

El Jefe

3/9/18 9:11am

So apostles decide where you spend two years. Anonymous employees

panguitch

3/9/18 8:26am

If your son is set on a "freshman experience" this is all probably for the best anyway

kccougar

3/9/18 7:28am

I thought similarly when they made the age change for missions.

atlcougar

3/9/18 7:48am

My son is a freshman at BYU this year----and it has been awesome for him

Greg Kite's 'stache

3/9/18 8:04am

Amen. My freshman year guys all wrote each other on the mission

3/9/18 10:01am

One comment on teacher recommendations

bluelands

3/9/18 7:53am

With regards to the Ecclesiastical endorsement, there hasn't really been room

Still Open

3/9/18 8:25am

Wouldn't be surprised if essay #4 is the clincher

panguitch

3/9/18 8:34am

Admissions essays are almost always where the final decisions are made.

Still Open

3/9/18 8:37am

This was very interesting to read. Although I'm a graduate of BYU there is no

cowhide

3/9/18 8:38am

There are allowances for the academic standards of athletes but they're still higher than other schools.

soupie

3/9/18 8:43am

I guess I'm proud of the fact that our standards are so high, but I don't think

cowhide

3/9/18 8:58am

In more ways than one.

soupie

3/9/18 9:09am

Ecclesiastical requirements maybe the biggest thing.

kotacoug

3/9/18 9:09am

Wow, I would never have gotten into BYU if I had today's standards.

Machiavelli

3/9/18 9:04am

Are you guys from Utah by chance? Perhaps they're trying to push for diversity

Machiavelli

3/9/18 9:05am

East coast. Atlanta I think he said.

kotacoug

3/9/18 9:08am

We're from GA. We do like chicken and waffles, shrimp and grits, and fried

atlcougar

3/9/18 9:09am

Sign me up!

Skeptical Optimist

3/9/18 9:15am

I am sending this to my teenagers. Thank you!

3/9/18 9:45am

We hope that our experience can be helpful in some way to others. Best of luck

atlcougar

3/9/18 10:00am

BYU is only going to get tougher and tougher to get into. Kids need to have 2 back-up plans now.

3/9/18 9:54am

Wonder if the 53% acceptance rate will hold up.

coldcoug

3/9/18 10:04am

It was under 50% previously. The year my oldest got in was first year that happened.

3/9/18 10:11am

IMO, if it's really important for a kid to go to school with an honor code and

Byron McNertney

3/9/18 10:12am

And folks bag on BYU-I, but seriously ... it's a great school.

runnincoug

3/9/18 10:17am

I didn’t like BYU-I too much. Academically it’s a completely different

Capricious Cougar

3/9/18 11:30am

Have your son ask the the seminary teacher and other teachers what they wrote.

jvquarterback

3/9/18 10:20am

I am not as surprised as others

allystake

3/9/18 10:29am

Good post, but when looking at the GPA/ACT combo atlcougar's son was far above

byuwahoo

3/9/18 6:33pm

Crazy. Thanks for the update. My wife works in college and grad school prep so

ArchbishopMitty

3/9/18 10:39am

I wonder when the admissions pendulum will swing back a rational process

byuwahoo

3/9/18 11:36am

I don't think any admissions committee is ever truly rational

buffgato

3/9/18 1:07pm

Absurd. BYU needs to change. The best students should get admitted. This "holistic" stuff is garbage.

HarlemCoug

3/9/18 12:44pm

So, where is he going now?

3/11/18 6:40pm

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