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Jan 15, 2021
11:45
:24
am
Charles Darwin
Truly Addicted User
Ive had those discussions with faculty as a BYU student...
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Charles Darwin
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Charles Darwin
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Mar 21, 2020
Last login
Jun 9, 2024
Total posts
14,355 (127 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Do Members overstate the quality of a BYU education?
Fargo
1/15/21 11:04am
the harvard of the west?
BlueFrog
1/15/21 11:05am
Bang for the buck is really hard to beat. The business program, undergrad and
Incentivize
1/15/21 11:06am
I don’t see how any lack of academic freedom present on BYU’s campus has
garyfan
1/15/21 11:06am
Depends on how you define “quality.” If “quality” includes opening young
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:09am
The topics that are not presented at BYU because it’s BYU are completely
garyfan
1/15/21 11:12am
I can only go on my own experience. I studied humanities and philosophy
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:16am
Well there's no such thing as a "quality" humanities degree.
MetaLearner
1/15/21 11:29am
Whoa. Personal attack! I feel attacked!
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:31am
Business, nursing, engineering, etc. So many disciplines where this just
garyfan
1/15/21 11:33am
Here’s my point: a lot of people look at college as a time to learn “how” to
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:37am
I reject the premise that the topics that may be off-limits at BYU
garyfan
1/15/21 11:46am
For people who truly value critical thinking and open mindedness, all topics
Jay Rick
1/15/21 12:40pm
That's why there's so much crushing debt. There should be some of that
fattycoug
1/15/21 7:55pm
What subjects were forbidden while you were there?
DMVCougar
1/15/21 1:52pm
99%+ of classes.
DMVCougar
1/15/21 1:52pm
And on top of that, I think Academic Freedom issues at BYU might be overblown
TerpCoug
1/15/21 11:10am
BYU has actual academic “freedom” issues, in the sense that there are ideas
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:14am
I see this as no different from all other universities.
MetaLearner
1/15/21 11:35am
Where would a tenured professor get fired for, say, challenging a student to
Jay Rick
1/15/21 11:39am
Ive had those discussions with faculty as a BYU student...
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 11:45am
I don’t doubt it. But if a BYU prof openly challenged a students belief in god
Jay Rick
1/15/21 12:42pm
Is challenging them to think about theism vs atheism the same as challenging
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 12:44pm
Sure. If a student comes in and says, I believe in god, and here’s why, a prof
Jay Rick
1/15/21 12:47pm
What a bizarre lesson plan. Perhaps I was unclear, if an instructor needed to
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 1:05pm
I think I'm probably just not describing it well, but anyone who has studied at
Jay Rick
1/15/21 1:15pm
I am far from a trade school kind of guy
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 1:48pm
Depends on which assumptions are being challenged.
MetaLearner
1/15/21 11:45am
Source? I just don’t buy it. I believe there would be social and cultural
Jay Rick
1/15/21 12:38pm
You really don't believe that in the current climate that if a tenured professor
MetaLearner
1/15/21 1:21pm
I don't know that story, but "forced to resign" is different from "fired."
Jay Rick
1/15/21 1:36pm
Forced to resign and fired are basically the same in this context.
MetaLearner
1/15/21 2:02pm
There are documented cases of professors being fired for challenging students on their woke ideas of gender and race
YIsForBrigham
1/15/21 8:00pm
For many degrees I agree with you. But I suspect for some fields it very much
Fargo
1/15/21 12:56pm
Quality is also relative. What is the utility relative to the cost? Even in the
BlackBart
1/15/21 11:08am
Agree the value for cost is great. No argument there.
Fargo
1/15/21 12:58pm
To me its just an incredible value..
cougfanz
1/15/21 11:08am
I think the average BYU student is smarter than the average University student
BlueVU
1/15/21 11:08am
I split my undergrad between BYU and an Ivy League.. I always felt like the avg
cougfanz
1/15/21 11:10am
<< Deleted >>
cougsareforreal
1/15/21 11:27am
I think the average BYU grad is way over the average employee at my work.
cougsareforreal
1/15/21 11:27am
I think it is more that many credit the whole school with the value of the business or accounting programs.
Tokolosh
1/15/21 11:09am
I think there is definitely bias among members to overstate how good BYU is
Fargo
1/15/21 1:03pm
Can you respond to my reasonable request below?
CLCougar
1/15/21 1:05pm
I think you’re overestimating the rankings. The PhD candidates coming out
BYU'01
1/15/21 5:09pm
You could argue that many people overvalue a college education in general.
Cougar TD
1/15/21 11:09am
I think Members UNDERESTIMATE how hard it is to get into BYU.
TheLost
1/15/21 11:09am
Not nearly as much as CBers overstate the value of a Stanford education
YIsForBrigham
1/15/21 11:09am
Lack of academic freedom is a myth. There is every bit as much academic freedom
gwalker
1/15/21 11:10am
That’s an interesting point
Odysseus
1/15/21 11:19am
BYU has it's own version of political correctness
run26
1/15/21 11:32am
Sure. But I saw that violated on many occasions even in the late 80s and
gwalker
1/15/21 11:57am
I think there is truth in this. Probably not as "unfree" as people think.
Fargo
1/15/21 1:04pm
<< Deleted >>
cvd6262
1/15/21 3:58pm
Buddy’s a professor for UT and he’s legally obligated to state that his favorite
BringYourUltimate
1/15/21 7:07pm
As it should be
WDaddy
1/15/21 7:52pm
Haha! I love it. I’m just saying there’s non-disparagement clauses within
BringYourUltimate
1/16/21 6:13am
one man's lack of academic freedom is another man's academic freedom
Littlerich
1/15/21 11:10am
"Lack of academic freedom" is a myth. I had more freedom to discuss actual
Division Bell
1/15/21 11:11am
BYU has little to no academic freedom on one particular subject (the church)
rcbyufan
1/15/21 11:14am
Sounds like someone didn't get accepted
nephicoug
1/15/21 11:14am
I'm a graduate thanks.
Fargo
1/15/21 1:05pm
Pull up the U.S. News and compare prices with schools in the Top 90. BYU has an
Gentleman Stan
1/15/21 11:15am
Based on how many BYU grads go on to med school, law school, dental school, MBAs, PhDs, I'd say no. Elite launching pad.
Turnpike Lane
1/15/21 11:16am
Members are achievers. They go to grad school at high rates, regardless of
DoseOfReality
1/15/21 12:09pm
Is it fair to ask your educational and professional background to assess your qualifications in making this judgement?
CLCougar
1/15/21 11:18am
I can honestly tell you the company I worked for got tired of BYU grads. Fortune
Fargo
1/15/21 1:08pm
Based where, if outside Utah?
CLCougar
1/15/21 1:16pm
Sounds the like BYU grads got tired of your company. En masse.
DMVCougar
1/15/21 2:25pm
What percentage of graduates are at the same company they started with 5 yrs
rcbyufan
1/15/21 3:34pm
I have none to answer your question. Just personal opinion based on limited
Fargo
1/15/21 1:09pm
Fair enough, thanks for answering. Others appear to have different experience during their careers, including me, as
CLCougar
1/15/21 1:18pm
Everywhere I’ve been, alumni of a school, and residents nearby, always have
Crowd Factor
1/15/21 11:18am
That's a sweeping generalization I don't agree with. Area of study should be factored. As example, someone
CLCougar
1/15/21 1:26pm
What is wrong with the age of faculty?
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 11:21am
Or was he referencing excess supply?
Odysseus
1/15/21 11:23am
Maybe if we had gone to an SEC school we could know for sure what is meant.
Charles Darwin
1/15/21 11:26am
I think you are looking at it wrong. What matters is the perception that
BPintheCouv
1/15/21 11:31am
See my post above. Good reputation for students but I've seen frustration.
Fargo
1/15/21 1:12pm
I thought that as a student, but after being in the workforce for 10+ years
cougarsnooty
1/15/21 11:36am
I would guess 95% of students don't care about academic "freedom".
ochobeeguy
1/15/21 11:45am
I think BYU's education is incredible simply because it's not a Research 1
newbie
1/15/21 11:47am
One of my former bosses got an MBA at Chicago. We compared notes and my
Nat Gas Man
1/15/21 12:10pm
I didn't go to BYU's law school, but I do remember talking to a college that
gwalker
1/15/21 12:22pm
Can you give some specific examples of lack of freedom at BYU affecting quality
Gustav
1/15/21 12:16pm
I don't really have any. Wouldn't have really noticed when I went there long ago
Fargo
1/15/21 1:14pm
Admittance to graduate programs and worth to employers is what counts. The admittance counselor to my Masters in Tax
hitechcpa
1/15/21 4:12pm
My education at BYU was mind expanding. Really prepared me well for law school.
DwigtA2RM
1/15/21 5:48pm
BYU undergrad and currently at Ivy grad school. I’d put any of my classmates at
4thand19
1/16/21 12:44am
I have some other thoughts on this.
MetaLearner
1/16/21 2:26pm
Also, I don't think BYU is trying to get above average faculty
MetaLearner
1/16/21 2:37pm
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