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Oct 1, 2022
11:16
:55
pm
royal_blue
Playmaker
I should have said subjective not arbitrary. It isn’t strictly arbitrary.
This would have been more accurate:
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royal_blue
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royal_blue
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Last login
Jun 4, 2024
Total posts
2,602 (5 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Updated Kalani era offense vs defense
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:18am
Good stuff
Blueto
9/30/22 11:26am
I will discuss
Jwine21
9/30/22 11:26am
That was…. Enlightening.
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:28am
Haha. Joking aside, your post was really good. Great Info
Jwine21
9/30/22 11:30am
I like this analysis, but it all hinges on the number 24.
All-American
9/30/22 11:28am
My rationale for 24 is the average offense in college football scores 27 points
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:29am
I think it's a fair metric, to be clear.
All-American
9/30/22 11:40am
Now, take into account the average TOP that BYU O loses thanks to the Tuiaki
TrueBlue67
9/30/22 11:29am
In that metric I would have to somehow penalize the offense when have
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:34am
Very true. Now, just come up with the metric! Please...
TrueBlue67
9/30/22 11:36am
While this is true, it's also true that an offense that isn't on the sidelines for prolonged times has an easier time
Mobettah
9/30/22 11:48am
24 is an arbitrary threshold. Defense can limit points simply by playing
royal_blue
9/30/22 11:33am
RE: 24 is an arbitrary threshold. Defense can limit points simply by playing
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:35am
I might agree if it meant we were losing games. We are winning at a higher rate
Blueto
9/30/22 11:38am
Only at the point that we start losing are we allowed to recognize deficiencies?
royal_blue
9/30/22 11:50am
And offenses can inflate points by running Hurry-up-no-huddle.
cougarfan84
9/30/22 11:46am
Agreed
Cougzilla
9/30/22 11:51am
So you agree with me.
royal_blue
9/30/22 11:53am
You seem to be a big fan of the "Points per drive" stat.
Abe Froman
9/30/22 12:10pm
RE: You seem to be a big fan of the "Points per drive" stat.
royal_blue
9/30/22 12:12pm
Agree that 24 is arbitrary. Here's the most important statistic - wins
NYC and Japan
9/30/22 1:30pm
Step 1: check W/L column. If W > L then stop analysis. Seems...not brilliant.
royal_blue
9/30/22 1:50pm
Not brilliant is a pretty high standard around these parts.
All-American
9/30/22 2:03pm
Except if you are winning more than 80% of the time. Then it's significant
Blueto
9/30/22 2:11pm
When we drop to 79% then we can look deeper than W/L? I'll standby until then.
royal_blue
9/30/22 2:20pm
Please and thank you.
All-American
9/30/22 2:41pm
Unlike you, I did not infer the only statistic worth checking. I listed 2
NYC and Japan
9/30/22 4:54pm
I’m pretty sure you’re just talking past me but I’ll make an attempt to steer
royal_blue
9/30/22 8:29pm
It's only kind of arbitrary but I am going to relook at this doing ppd. 👀👀
Cougzilla
10/1/22 6:47pm
I should have said subjective not arbitrary. It isn’t strictly arbitrary.
royal_blue
10/1/22 11:16pm
You know what would be cool is if we built a dynamic visual where the point
royal_blue
10/1/22 11:22pm
That does sound cool. Would you know how to do that if I got you the info?
Cougzilla
10/2/22 7:34am
Yes.
royal_blue
10/2/22 7:48am
This is fascinating. Dead on in my opinion.
CougaRR4L
9/30/22 11:50am
Interesting analysis. While we could debate about whether or not "24 points" is
cougarfan84
9/30/22 11:59am
Interesting perspective. Admittedly it’s not a perfect system.
Cougzilla
9/30/22 2:13pm
Oregon as team loss? The d let their first string score every possession
BYU '80
9/30/22 2:29pm
Offense failed to score 24+ points, defense gave up 24+, team fail
BYUFootballisBack
9/30/22 2:33pm
So that pretty much eliminates your methodology as meaningful
BYU '80
9/30/22 2:37pm
Why?
Cougzilla
9/30/22 2:39pm
The minimum in this metric is the offense must score 24 point to pull their own
Cougzilla
9/30/22 2:38pm
Very hard for the offense to obtain their goals when the defense stays on the
chazen
10/1/22 1:48am
Did you watch the game? Maybe the offense should get 1st downs if they
Blueto
10/1/22 8:08am
I think both of you are right. However, continuity and flow to a football game matters. Standing on the sidelines for
Mobettah
10/1/22 10:55am
I don’t really like this argument because when you simplify it you essentially
Cougzilla
10/1/22 11:22am
LOL. Sure did
chazen
10/1/22 2:54pm
Why is it the defenses fault if the offense can’t get a single first down?
Cougzilla
10/1/22 11:27am
Offense scored 38 and had multiple missed field goals. Seems they are doing fine. Can they be better? Sure.
Mobettah
10/1/22 11:34am
I agree they are fine, that why I don’t like the argument.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 11:45am
Case in point: The second half our offense seemed to perform much better during the times the defense would get
Mobettah
10/1/22 12:57pm
I could just as easily flip that around. Our defense played better when our
Cougzilla
10/1/22 1:12pm
USU scored on their first possession for the first time this year. Our defense made a 1-4 crappy USU offense
Mobettah
10/1/22 1:29pm
USU held an offense to -20 rush for the first half for the first time this year
Cougzilla
10/1/22 1:43pm
I'll take our offense over this defensive scheme any day of the week. And you the defense. Fair enough.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:24pm
LOL! Scoring 38 with 2 missed field goals made a crappy USU defense look good. Okay man. In your world TOP doesn't
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:28pm
They only scored 31. And how is missing field goals a good thing. It is also
Cougzilla
10/1/22 2:33pm
This thread shows you defending the defense. Just own it. You like the scheme. Any counter points are dismissed.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:42pm
If the defense sucks it’s the defenses fault. If the offense sucks it’s also the
Cougzilla
10/1/22 2:48pm
LOL! Our offense sucks according to you. Got it.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:49pm
I said “if”also this whole thread literally started by someone saying
Cougzilla
10/1/22 2:52pm
I did elaborate. TOP matters to the flow of the game for offense. That's a premise you categorically denied above.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:55pm
Ok but why does that standard not go both way.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 2:59pm
This goes to scheme. This defense is not being called for quick 3 & outs. It's the bend but don't break approach.
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:13pm
Ok so the criticism is based more on the scheme than the results of the game?
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:18pm
If the offense sucks it's the offenses fault. If the defense sucks it's also the offenses fault. Got it.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:51pm
I never said that. Now you are straw manning big time.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 2:53pm
Just using your own technique against you.
Mobettah
10/1/22 2:55pm
But you are literally saying that the offense struggled because of the defense
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:00pm
Amazing, I know! I'm literally saying if the defense can't get off the field there is a rhythm to the game that
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:03pm
And I am asking why that standard doesn’t go both ways?
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:08pm
I would disagree with your last statements.
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:17pm
but literally means the entire outcome of the game relies on the defense, yes?
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:19pm
I don't think you understand the word 'literally'
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:22pm
Yeah I understand that could affect the offense.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:28pm
Exactly!
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:33pm
So when I say that your position is
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:37pm
Also, are you admitting that your position is
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:15pm
Just because I used your technique against you of writing a reverse doesn't mean I admit to that. I've stated my
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:18pm
No I am legitimately confused.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:21pm
Real clear. I'll restate our positions.
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:28pm
Kind of.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 3:35pm
Assuming points scored per possession is a good KPI, TOP should matter in that it gives an offense/defense who is
Mobettah
10/1/22 3:47pm
I will tentatively agree to everything in this except the last line.
Cougzilla
10/1/22 4:03pm
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