No, there isn’t a flaw in the data or the methodology. It’s hard to find a

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Mar 27, 2024
2:21:49pm

Odysseus The Rizzler

No, there isn’t a flaw in the data or the methodology. It’s hard to find a

player who had a very good career at BYU, was an RM, and struggled the season immediately following his mission.

I have about 8 examples and others have added a couple more. I stand by those ~10 examples.

So I’ll ask for the 50th time on this thread: give an example of someone who struggled post-mission, got in shape, and then had a very good collegiate career.

I was surprised I couldn’t come up with one - and I still can’t. And the 1/2 dozen people who have pissed and moaned about this thread still haven’t come up with one example 🤔.

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Odysseus

Previous username: THUNDERDOME69
Bio page: Odysseus
Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Last login: Apr 29, 2024
Total posts: 32,803 (11,443 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

Mission legs are a myth. If a player is going to be really good then he'll be

Odysseus

Mar 26, 3:38pm

I'd give a kid a 3 week acclimation during the season. After that, a kid should

Jwine21

Mar 26, 3:40pm

He has six months, from May to November.

Bullrider

Mar 26, 9:19pm

Having served a mission, I think you are wrong. I could dunk a ball prior to my

BYU-Ite

Mar 26, 3:41pm

Your parents raised the hoop from 8' to 10'. Sorry to break the news to you now.

foofcoug

Mar 26, 3:43pm

Probably true! I knew something looked different....

BYU-Ite

Mar 26, 3:49pm

Similar to my experience.

Mar 26, 3:48pm

Hmmm...I could dunk before, during, and after. My free throws needed some work

Doogal McCougar

Mar 26, 4:57pm

Dallin?

palangi

Mar 26, 5:49pm

Yep. It took me almost a year to be fully back.

j20

Mar 27, 9:57am

Not according to my user notes

Mar 28, 10:23pm

And Shawn Bradley's rookie season was about average for the rest of his career

Odysseus

Mar 26, 3:41pm

Where's Saunders?

kimdaddy35

Mar 26, 3:42pm

I wouldn't put him in the "really good" category yet, but hopefully he is one we

Odysseus

Mar 26, 3:47pm

Saunders was probably our best player at the end of this year. Not sure how Hall

kimdaddy35

Mar 26, 3:53pm

I totally agree with this. The only difference I see is that Hall has filled a

PumaFanatico

Mar 26, 10:56pm

For guards it’s a combination. The body does need some time but the handles take

CougGolf

Mar 26, 3:51pm

Good or not the reality is that missions hurt development. A guy can

JAGA97

Mar 26, 4:01pm

It comes back quickly - quick enough that there’s not much data to suggest that

Odysseus

Mar 26, 4:18pm

Unless you count all those guys that came back and sucked, didn't make a roster

JAGA97

Mar 26, 4:35pm

Maybe. But there are a lot of guys who played as a freshman, went on a mission,

Odysseus

Mar 26, 4:39pm

Sure. Most guys don't have their best season as freshmen. I served missions with

JAGA97

Mar 26, 4:54pm

Holy smokes Batman, we have decades of data showing missions take a huge toll

Mitty

Mar 26, 8:33pm

BYU, U, USU, SUU, WSU coaches all have a significatn RM settling in period. They would disagree with the "myth" claim..

Hammurabi

Mar 27, 7:18pm

It also depends on the player, where they go, if they have access to basketball,

baishel44

Mar 26, 7:06pm

But how good would you have been if you played/trained 4 hours every day

JAGA97

Mar 27, 12:58pm

Most likely better yes, but I can't say for sure, But reason says most likely.

baishel44

Mar 27, 1:48pm

A lot of it has to do with where they serve. Chandler is in Europe not the jungle so I'm not too worried

puntersarepeople

Mar 26, 4:14pm

Don't agree. Min 3 mths. Most 6-12. Everyone I played with that went on

FT487

Mar 26, 4:16pm

That’s definitely the theory, so I was surprised to see the mission had very

Odysseus

Mar 26, 4:27pm

When did they come home? I came home the first of March so I had about 7 mths

FT487

Mar 26, 4:31pm

I'll make an obvious statement. Every body is different. I was a better athlete

Nagurski

Mar 27, 9:24am

What about all the RMs that flamed out or were just ok post mission?

Dr T-bone

Mar 26, 4:38pm

RE: What about all the RMs that flamed out or were just ok post mission?

Odysseus

Mar 26, 4:40pm

Just wondering? Who are the players that flamed out after their missions?

Bullrider

Mar 26, 9:24pm

Is there data on the more you work out and the more you practice

CougaRR4L

Mar 26, 4:52pm

Not so fast my friend ...

icecougar

Mar 26, 4:59pm

And then there's Devin Durrant

Les IsMore

Mar 26, 6:24pm

And Michael Smith, who was a 6'8" center before his mission, and came back at

Mar 26, 6:37pm

He was my favorite player on the basketball team for a while, but

Belboz

Mar 27, 8:53am

that dude could ball

Croweater

Mar 26, 7:39pm

ponderize on that

baldcoug74

Mar 26, 9:47pm

Lol! Durrant can never get away from we ponderizers. 😉

Les IsMore

Mar 27, 10:02am

That team needed him to score more than the one pre-mission.

LeGrandBleu

Mar 27, 12:11am

It’s more than just legs. I know multiple athletes who played pre mission and

King of Y

Mar 26, 6:46pm

And then we have all those head coaches that complain about our old 'mature'

Mar 26, 6:49pm

lol! Not a myth.

First-n-10

Mar 26, 6:55pm

How many of those you named also played a year before serving? That plays a big part as well.

RoaroftheCougartails

Mar 26, 7:20pm

All but the first 3 listed. The fact that they all picked up where they left off

Odysseus

Mar 26, 7:34pm

This is such a bad take. I lost 40 lbs on my mission. I was never the same

bookofdaniel

Mar 26, 8:19pm

Yep.

King of Y

Mar 26, 8:30pm

Opposite for me, that’s why I think it’s different for everyone and it’s hard to

baishel44

Mar 26, 8:52pm

Agreed. So much depends on the person.

Cougstreak

Mar 27, 9:32am

Yeah I served over seas and never worked out. My freshman season was way

bookofdaniel

Mar 27, 3:39pm

LOL "here are the best RMs we've had, missions did not affect them"

Mitty

Mar 26, 8:35pm

Right. The context is people saying Colin Chandler will need a year or so to get

Odysseus

Mar 26, 9:00pm

Pretty comprehensive list there. Or did you cherry pick the easy ones

niqmadu

Mar 26, 9:07pm

Feel free to share a contrary example

Odysseus

Mar 26, 9:37pm

This is humorous. You are the one trying to establish a point

niqmadu

Mar 27, 6:54am

The data is cherry-picked in one way: I limited it to fairly recent players who

Odysseus

Mar 27, 8:14am

you are the one showing up with "facts" and making a huge claim. fix it yourself

niqmadu

Mar 27, 1:38pm

No, there isn’t a flaw in the data or the methodology. It’s hard to find a

Odysseus

Mar 27, 2:21pm

...so lets exclude EVERYONE who was highly rated before the mission but did not

niqmadu

Mar 27, 5:25pm

It wouldn’t make sense to include RMs who were never good at BYU we don’t know

Odysseus

Mar 27, 5:36pm

The more I think about this, the more I realize freedom of speech has

King of Y

Mar 26, 11:35pm

Indeed. Some people are hostile to data that contradicts preconceived notions

Odysseus

Mar 27, 8:16am

Using outliers as your data set is not a sound use of statistical analysis.

King of Y

Mar 27, 10:20am

RE: Using outliers as your data set is not a sound use of statistical analysis.

Odysseus

Mar 27, 10:32am

You literally took only took good players who had good years and claim it proves

King of Y

Mar 27, 2:44pm

I’m only looking at RMs who had good careers at BYU. That’s the group I care

Odysseus

Mar 27, 3:18pm

Yep, only the ones who support your claim.

niqmadu

Mar 27, 5:27pm

Not at all. There could be plenty of players who struggled right after their

Odysseus

Mar 27, 5:43pm

Coaches and trainers disagree vehemently. Takes about a year to get explosiveness back

Hammurabi

Mar 26, 11:45pm

Sure, so there should be a lot of easy data points to support the argument.

Odysseus

Mar 27, 8:10am

Your "data" doesn't prove anything about the group as a whole...just stop

coug10278

Mar 27, 9:36am

I do not agree. When I came off my mission it took me some time...

Big-Q

Mar 27, 8:43am

This is easier to accurately track with track athletes. Specifically measured absolute performances show you are wrong.

Joe Banks

Mar 27, 9:13am

I’d be curious to see what it looks like for other sports. B-ball surprised me

Odysseus

Mar 27, 9:27am

Somewhat relevant to your point is that BB is a winter sport.

Joe Banks

Mar 27, 9:39am

I've got a son that will be getting home at the end of summer..I will be curious

baishel44

Mar 27, 1:55pm

Jared Ward nearly gave up running after his mission because he felt so far away

TailgateU

Mar 27, 5:44pm

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