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Feb 15, 2017
10:52
:26
pm
Baron
All-American
Then pay teachers more. What is the issue? I am all for paying teachers more
if it is needed.
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Baron
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jarocho
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Baron
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Last login
Jun 21, 2024
Total posts
95,403 (33,242 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
Apparently 120K in total compensation for a teacher is considered "dismal pay"
viper
2/15/17 6:53pm
Head janitors at elementary schools get 80k
OU Cougar
2/15/17 6:55pm
Our custodian at our school in Utah makes $43,000 after 20 years. You are
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:25pm
Charter schools must be different
OU Cougar
2/15/17 9:22pm
Ummm..can you show me where I can apply for this?
Cougarrr
2/15/17 7:29pm
Management position, years of experience, and kids puke-
RedlandsCoug
2/15/17 7:39pm
Don't think that is accurate
fattycoug
2/15/17 9:08pm
Holy crap. Is that right? Insane if true.
Sugarhood
2/15/17 6:58pm
And not disputing her value at all, but why would she need a second job if that is her pay?
Sugarhood
2/15/17 7:01pm
After 28 years in her field and an advanced degree, her salary is ~77k.
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 7:03pm
Pretty sure she knew the pay scale going in
tjngirlz
2/15/17 7:09pm
That is exactly the problem. Teachers know the pay scale going in
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 7:12pm
It's not really about "whining", it's about inadequate policy in a system that
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:24pm
Great point. I didn't factor in the benefits part either. That makes a lot more sense now. Still,
Sugarhood
2/15/17 7:12pm
Its technically 65k plus some overtime to get to ~77k.
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 7:18pm
Also, she gets a couple months off each year, which is a huge perk. And
Baron
2/15/17 7:42pm
About $40K of it is defined as "benefits", so that's a salary of about $80K
El Jefe
2/15/17 7:04pm
for 8.5 months.
LiveCoug
2/15/17 7:08pm
Hahaha
Cougarrr
2/15/17 7:09pm
Sorry, 8.25 months.
LiveCoug
2/15/17 7:10pm
As soon as it's $100k for 8.25 months, i'll teach math.
Bert609
2/15/17 7:53pm
Must be nice.
endy
2/15/17 7:17pm
Good news! There's a teacher shortage so I'm sure you could land a job.
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:20pm
Prorated, that is $100K if she worked a full year.
Left Shark Coug
2/15/17 7:19pm
A new grad with a Masters makes 34k in her district.
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 7:22pm
I saw a job listing maybe two years ago in Phoenix for a new graduate
Icecat
2/15/17 7:53pm
You cannot discount the benefits. It still counts as pay. There is a reason
Spine
2/16/17 5:46pm
I count anything that shows up on a W-2 as income. Not there,
soupie
2/16/17 6:04pm
So a pension does not count? Way more expensive than a 401k match.
Spine
2/16/17 6:09pm
If you knew the rules of the pension you'd be surprised. Most will never collect
bluebloodedcoug
2/16/17 7:38pm
My mom woks for a Utah school district and retiring this year. My FIL has
Spine
2/17/17 10:05am
Cherry picking facts and misrepresenting them
Cougarrr
2/15/17 7:08pm
so after 28 years of experience and an advanced degree, she earns what a 4th year accountant makes and less than a 1st
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 7:09pm
I would happily pay $100-$200 more in taxes a year if I knew it would go
Nakedbootleg
2/15/17 7:19pm
I agree - Utah total pay to administration is out of control. I'd certainly support higher taxes but would expect that
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 7:47pm
As soon as she can bill her time @$500 an hour to a paying client!
Pasadena
2/15/17 7:35pm
she could if she went into a different field. that's the problem.... our best minds are going elsewhere because taking
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 7:47pm
I see this ALL the time. My master's degree is full of teachers getting out
runnincoug
2/15/17 7:55pm
<< Deleted >>
Buffalo
2/15/17 8:52pm
Here's what attorneys make at Cravath - 1st years are north of $180k.
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 9:03pm
<< Deleted >>
Buffalo
2/15/17 9:07pm
you seem to think that talented people don't know how to get on an airplane. We're talking about hiring and retaining
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 9:11pm
<< Deleted >>
Buffalo
2/15/17 9:19pm
Most attorneys have about a 0% chance of getting hired by Cravath,
califcougar
2/15/17 9:19pm
<< Deleted >>
Buffalo
2/15/17 9:26pm
I'm comparing options - not sure why you guys want to nitpick this. A kid starts college... they have to decide on
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 9:27pm
It shouldn't be in their calculus, because being a lawyer at Cravath
califcougar
2/15/17 9:46pm
Makes for a weird dynamic. You have teachers asking for more money, but to your
Pasadena
2/15/17 9:46pm
<< Deleted >>
jensen46
2/16/17 6:30am
Utah big firm numbers are probably closer to 130k and to be
Baron
2/15/17 10:41pm
And a teacher starts around $30k.
soupie
2/15/17 10:43pm
So what is your point?
Baron
2/15/17 10:49pm
Why would anyone with the chops to be an attorney choose teaching today? Obviously there are some reason... but
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 11:01pm
If my spouse and I worked and both taught in say Wyoming, I would
Baron
2/16/17 6:52am
Yes, but then you'd have to live in Wyo.
But seriously, someone in my grad school cohort went to
soupie
2/16/17 9:20am
If there are shortages or issues with your teachers in the area, I have no
Baron
2/16/17 10:53am
What city are you in?
soupie
2/16/17 10:56am
I'm in the midwest
Baron
2/16/17 11:58am
My favorite state!
WhyKnot
2/17/17 2:05am
I would love to get that pay and live in Wyoming!! NO STATE TAXES
Cosmo4life
2/16/17 12:30pm
Meanwhile our Wyoming legislature continues
jxncoog
2/16/17 2:07pm
Too bad this example features a Non Teacher
Tsisquan
2/16/17 10:31pm
But most are on the same pay scale despite the much higher educational requirement-- are in Utah, anyway.
soupie
2/17/17 9:41am
There's waaaay too much wasted money in Utah's public school system. Money that should be going to teachers
Coug Dude
2/17/17 3:05pm
Couple things:
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:10pm
STEM need to be paid more. PE can be taught by interns.
v1k0u6
2/15/17 7:12pm
There are many subjects where the pay is enough, combined with the lifestyle, to
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:16pm
My wifes isnt accuratr.she is a teacher, it has been before though
CarolinaCoug
2/15/17 7:20pm
After nearly 30 years, she makes $65k teaching. The other $10k salary is janitor
dtownCoug
2/15/17 8:31pm
I was on the school board-- listen to this
OU Cougar
2/15/17 7:11pm
this has to stop... I'm all for paying teachers more.... I'm arguably the biggest advocate for higher teacher pay on
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 7:14pm
In Utah?
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:17pm
Nope Idaho
OU Cougar
2/15/17 7:22pm
No offense but I think your numbers are off.
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:26pm
Yeah this guy is throwing out a lot of impossible numbers. Not sure what the
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:27pm
One was a public charter school
OU Cougar
2/15/17 7:35pm
If you run a charter you can pay yourself whatever you want. That is one of the
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:52pm
That is not true.
Baron
2/15/17 7:45pm
No. Those rerirement nu.bers dont jobe for utah
CarolinaCoug
2/15/17 7:23pm
She goes to church in the same building as me
OU Cougar
2/15/17 7:43pm
This is messed up. And Teachers are still undercompensated
Cougarrr
2/15/17 7:19pm
In Utah you have to have worked 30 years to retire. This scenario is impossible.
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:22pm
It doesn't work in Idaho either.
shakinbaker
2/15/17 7:27pm
35 years now and you only get (1.5x number of years)%
bluebloodedcoug
2/15/17 7:46pm
This is true for anyone that was hired after 2011.
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:50pm
Witnessing the birth of an alternative fact is always such a beautiful occasion.
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 7:30pm
<< Deleted >>
Abe Froman
2/15/17 8:24pm
Sounds like you didn't do your job
Sumguy
2/15/17 10:14pm
As a note: principals = admin. admin are not teachers. 🍎🍊
HammerTheHive
2/16/17 10:17am
Not these ridiculous points of "data" again.
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:18pm
She is working two jobs. One as a teacher, one as a janitor both show up on
93 cougar
2/15/17 7:20pm
Thus. Its the combination of TWO jobs..
CarolinaCoug
2/15/17 7:26pm
It is not though
viper
2/15/17 7:32pm
Every time someone finds the numbers on that site we hear this.
Cougarrr
2/15/17 7:20pm
Oooh, can i play irrelevant single data point too? Here is a ft teacher making
runnincoug
2/15/17 7:21pm
It was KSL that choose this person to highlight as getting a "dismal pay"
viper
2/15/17 7:31pm
Even if it was all cash (it isnt)- that's low relative to other jobs w/masters
RedlandsCoug
2/15/17 7:44pm
And ... it's two jobs for the district combining for that salary
runnincoug
2/15/17 7:54pm
Scumbag unions
Tsisquan
2/15/17 7:46pm
No one puts a gun to my head for my profession, no one does for theirs.
BlackBart
2/15/17 7:50pm
Exactly. Hence 50% turnover in the first 5 years and why your kids are always
runnincoug
2/15/17 7:59pm
If parents are unhappy, they should do something about it.
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:15pm
Hence the article on KSL and the discussion here. Or is that whining?
StalwartBraveTrue
2/17/17 12:22am
The turnover is related more to teachers deciding to be stay at home moms.
viper
2/17/17 12:04pm
The best research out there shows it IS related to pay, partially. Consider that
runnincoug
2/17/17 3:24pm
I haven't seen that, where did you see that research?
viper
2/17/17 7:10pm
here's just one article, published in the top educational research journal
runnincoug
2/17/17 10:46pm
That is NOT the number that shows up on her W-2, I guarantee it.
soupie
2/15/17 8:12pm
A year's worth of hours? It depends on the job. No way do they put in the same
Baron
2/15/17 8:16pm
Exactly. Teacher hours during 9 months and prorated wouldn't get close to mine.
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:20pm
I could work in the private sector and make much more but chose education setting
soupie
2/15/17 8:27pm
I'm simply saying there are tradeoffs that obviously many teachers enjoy
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:31pm
Not a bad idea. Call KSL. I think part of it is that teachers are
soupie
2/15/17 8:36pm
Everyone is being expected to do more and increase productivity. This isn't new.
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:41pm
LOL, that gift basket totally makes up for a 32k salary.
Nathanael Greene
2/15/17 8:51pm
It's a small example of the intrinsic rewards that teachers experience
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:55pm
This is the point. It's not about feeling bad for teachers, it's about fixing a
shakinbaker
2/15/17 8:58pm
When I move to Utah, I'm happy to be a part of organizing parents to solve
BlackBart
2/15/17 9:01pm
I'll be honest about to start ... by not disparaging their professionalism
runnincoug
2/15/17 9:09pm
Where am I disparaging teachers? I didn't cite anything you assert
BlackBart
2/15/17 9:12pm
your tone is one of "they are fine, their pay is good, they should be happy."
runnincoug
2/15/17 9:23pm
This statement is just not true:
Baron
2/15/17 9:52pm
We just aren't going to agree. The data shows teachers are severely underpaid
runnincoug
2/15/17 10:04pm
Please specify which comment is disrespectful.
Baron
2/15/17 10:13pm
This, for example
runnincoug
2/15/17 10:24pm
That is not many hours IMO especially when get two months off.
Baron
2/15/17 10:46pm
Sigh ... you really should not just report personal anecdotes ...
runnincoug
2/15/17 11:01pm
Also not working as many hours is not a comment on how hard someone is
Baron
2/15/17 10:55pm
It's my "tone". Nothing I've said is disparaging, but because I'm challenging
BlackBart
2/15/17 10:14pm
Nice that your school doesn't have a shortage. Again ... look at AVERAGES. Utah
runnincoug
2/15/17 10:28pm
Then pay teachers more. What is the issue? I am all for paying teachers more
Baron
2/15/17 10:52pm
I'm confused ... what are we arguing about?
runnincoug
2/15/17 10:56pm
not all teachers are underpaid. Some are. In those circumstances pay more.
Baron
2/15/17 11:00pm
Wait ... so are you saying teachers are paid appropriately or not?
runnincoug
2/15/17 11:03pm
BTW, U.S. teachers are among the hardest (longest) working in the world
runnincoug
2/15/17 11:07pm
Some teachers are paid appropriately and some are not whether
Baron
2/16/17 6:07am
Ha ha ha
Cougarrr
2/15/17 9:05pm
Ha ha ha. You obviously miss the point. Either the intrinsic or extrinsic
BlackBart
2/15/17 9:15pm
I'm not unhappy with the quality of machinist. I'm very unhappy with the quality of teachers. I want to pay
HarlemCoug
2/15/17 9:07pm
Assuming as you laid it out, I'd have no problem with my taxes increasing.
BlackBart
2/15/17 9:15pm
In Chicago rich people would give directly to the school to hire more and better
Baron
2/15/17 10:57pm
A 40 hr week? Yes. An attorney? No but their salary would be
soupie
2/15/17 8:22pm
I know a lot of teachers that say that, but I have not
Baron
2/15/17 8:29pm
I imagine prep time goes down but certainly not grading. Prep also
soupie
2/15/17 8:32pm
and how is this any different than emerging products/technologies that
BlackBart
2/15/17 8:37pm
And feel free to compare those salaries.
soupie
2/15/17 10:40pm
More freuenty than that even.. new texts, new reading program, new this
CarolinaCoug
2/16/17 1:13am
Allright you've said enough without being corrected so here goes.
CarolinaCoug
2/16/17 1:29am
Good for them. While I don't trust their counting of hours, I am
Baron
2/16/17 6:55am
Totally anomaly
shakarocks
2/15/17 8:34pm
Yeah, just weird that ksl used that teacher as a poster child for under paid
viper
2/15/17 10:48pm
Even more weird they didn't look into what all is included in the salary listed on the govt. site. I'd be willing
soupie
2/15/17 11:01pm
Why don't benefits count?
BYU'01
2/16/17 8:36pm
Your private huge co-pay argument is exactly what the health insurance in my district is. In fact, it's
soupie
2/17/17 9:45am
Yes, total compensation factored in every job decision I've made
BYU'01
2/17/17 6:14pm
Appalling. Half this board is blind to the whole problem and the other half
StalwartBraveTrue
2/17/17 12:28am
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