Bigger problem is that you can get a 4.0 at some schools with minimal effort...

Jan 25, 2018
1:57:32pm

Fdnman All-American

my family in Utah would be shocked at what it takes to get near those grades in the schools here.

But it has always been that way. I was a 4.0 student with maybe one A- in 6 years of middle school and high school in Utah...I went to Illinois for my senior year and got my academic butt handed to me. My first English paper came back with a D on it. Math was my favorite subject and I had to kill myself to finish with a B for the year.

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Fdnman

Bio page: Fdnman
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Last login: Apr 30, 2024
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Messages

Author

Time

The Dick Harmon interview on 1280 reveals a lot

Claire Standish

1/24/18 7:18pm

My son is in 9th grade and I have got to give him other options....

idacoug

1/24/18 7:21pm

Idacoug...gotta love BYU-Idaho baby

OU Cougar

1/24/18 7:59pm

Funny how BYU students are suddenly nerds when your kids can’t get in

SneakerPimp

1/24/18 8:47pm

I called byu nerdtown when I was there 20 years ago, but nice assumption.

idacoug

1/24/18 10:14pm

Me too but can only imagine what it is now.

timponyloco

1/24/18 11:02pm

<< Deleted >>

JupiterJones

1/25/18 3:31pm

BYU students have always been a unique bunch

cedar cougar

1/25/18 6:50am

As far as I know, the "tunnel singing" thing isn't a new phenomenon.

Eddie

1/25/18 10:08am

Why not just own it?

ditch

1/25/18 11:47am

That's kinda the definition of 'Nerd'

Dissenter

1/25/18 11:51am

Thanks for trying

ditch

1/25/18 12:48pm

Only a nerd would look up the real definition.

ditch

1/25/18 12:52pm

And I'm not even claiming to be smart.

ditch

1/25/18 12:53pm

Geeks, not nerds.

JupiterJones

1/25/18 3:32pm

go to SLCC for a year and transfer

MWKV3

1/24/18 10:48pm

Even transferring is hard. My son did not get in with an Associates degree.

scott715

1/24/18 11:28pm

Getting accepted as a transfer depends on your GPA; must be atleast 3.85.

LifelongAP

1/24/18 11:38pm

<< Deleted >>

BaseballCoug

1/24/18 11:53pm

I transferred from UVSC (before UVU) with a 3.4

DCCougFan

1/25/18 7:06am

I think what did him in was lack of extracurricular activities.

scott715

1/25/18 9:13am

that's the average for out of high school, for transfers it's 3.3 I think

Hill4Heisman

1/25/18 1:26pm

My daughter tried to transfer from Chandler-Gilbert before her mission and got rejected...

Adrielle

1/30/18 8:58pm

I got in in 2011 with under a 3.0. There's hope

Dissenter

1/25/18 11:51am

I don't believe that for a second. Athletes certainly get breaks. If you're a good athlete with a 19 ACT score and a 2.5

Brisco

1/24/18 7:23pm

Harmon covers BYU and recruiting year in and out

Claire Standish

1/24/18 7:26pm

I’ll bet there are a bunch of scholarship football players with minimal

idacoug

1/24/18 7:30pm

IIRC BYU does not accept the NCAA minimum

Nat Gas Man

1/24/18 7:30pm

I'll buy that. You scarecly have to know how to read to clear the NCAA minimum.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:43pm

Dayan didn’t clear the minimum

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:45am

He's not the only one. BYU is actively recruiting non-qualifiers by telling

Scratch

1/25/18 10:52am

See how many kids have BYU and Marshall offers

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:57am

I am quite sure that Utah uses its full allotment of non-qualifiers:

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:18am

Utah does occasionally. I think they only allow one per team every couple of

Scratch

1/25/18 11:33am

4 per school per academic year for the school's entire AD.

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:35am

That's what the conference allows. Utah then limits them so that they get spread

Scratch

1/25/18 11:41am

That’s a conference rule, not a Utah rule. MWC allows none.

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:07pm

I've been told by someone in football that there are both. The conference has

Scratch

1/25/18 12:40pm

PAC rule: Two men, Two women, no more than 1 per sport.

jrj84105

1/25/18 11:54am

You don't know that it was GPA or ACT. It could have been a mix-up on

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:08am

But the issue was that he never cleared the NCAA clearinghouse and that did not

Scratch

1/25/18 11:35am

By the way, this was the same thing that happened with Pita T. If you recall,

Scratch

1/25/18 11:40am

And yet we know Utah takes non qualifiers

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:45pm

The issue is BYU coaches getting a pass for recruiting failure based on falacy

jrj84105

1/25/18 3:42pm

This was not the case under Bronco, which is my point. Pita T occurred under

NewMexiCoug

1/27/18 12:22pm

You’re missing the point on Lake. Even if they thought Lake would qualify,

Scratch

1/27/18 12:58pm

That’s just entrance. What about staying eligible?

AC_Coug

1/29/18 11:21pm

RE: That’s just entrance. What about staying eligible?

jrj84105

1/30/18 8:05am

Compelling evidence here

jrj84105

1/30/18 8:08am

I got into byu as an undergrad applicant and for grad school. Next

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:33am

Actually compelling evidence that Utah players I knew

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:36am

With all the help they receive, there's no excuse for players just about

Scratch

1/30/18 8:59am

Byu has taken one non qualifier that we know of

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:32am

You’re absolutely wrong on both accounts.

jrj84105

1/29/18 10:21pm

Kids as in Dayan Lake because the rest is pure conjecture

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:36pm

Just because they aren't public like Lake doesn't make it conjecture.

Scratch

1/31/18 9:06am

Sure it does. Just because they can doesn’t mean they do

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:08am

Yes they do. Because they are not public does not mean that there are no people

Scratch

1/31/18 11:15am

But do you know of any?

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:18am

Yes I do. Several. A couple of current players and a couple of current recruits.

Scratch

1/31/18 11:32am

You have a lot of people willing to confide very personal

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:46am

I do recall Pita T, but your characterization of the events is not accuratre

NewMexiCoug

1/27/18 12:20pm

You’re wrong. Utah got Pita qualified. If it had just been the NQ waiver he

Scratch

1/27/18 12:48pm

If you followed recruiting.....

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:06pm

I sure hope so. We'd be dumb not to

Ulysses14

1/24/18 7:41pm

That is definitely true.

AZ Coug

1/24/18 8:12pm

Check your boardmail.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:40pm

If an athlete did have lower score/grades, it's likely an exception to the norm

Claire Standish

1/24/18 7:58pm

Claire, Claire, Claire.

Brisco

1/24/18 8:09pm

Give the Harmon interview a listen before rushing to judgement

Claire Standish

1/24/18 8:42pm

I can tell you with 100% confidence that athletes at BYU do get "special breaks"

goldy

1/24/18 10:54pm

A relative of mine was recruited to play a sport for BYU. Coach said: "Send...

cougarmeister

1/24/18 10:53pm

The same can also be said in other programs but perhaps not

soupie

1/24/18 11:05pm

Well now we know what the average GPA is 3.9 and the ACT is 29.6

Nat Gas Man

1/24/18 11:12pm

And doesn't have near the access and contacts that he used to have. Makes a lot

basman

1/24/18 8:18pm

His deductive processing has always been suspect too. And his hard-working

mantis mutu

1/24/18 11:17pm

There are plenty of kids on the football team who do not meet the academic

Nagurski

1/25/18 10:28am

Know a kid w/ Utah offer to play FB a few yrs ago. Not even offered

soupie

1/24/18 7:54pm

I have a hard time believing there weren't other factors tht were the real issue

mantis mutu

1/25/18 12:11am

had to be an excuse - I know of player on the team that was told they could

truecougster

1/25/18 12:25am

A friend of mine was admitted with a 24 ACT and 3.5 GPA. He was not an athlete.

Gorum the Old

1/25/18 6:57am

The averages have been creeping up every year. Maybe this was the public

soupie

1/25/18 7:54am

At a previous job, I looked at application details as part of my job function...

lspin01l

1/24/18 8:23pm

Just like it works at most schools

Kerbouchard

1/25/18 11:00am

Not for football under Bronco.

NewMexiCoug

1/24/18 9:16pm

I wouldn’t be too sure. My friend was a football recruit

Redfiretruck

1/24/18 10:01pm

Night and day difference for a walkon.

Scratch

1/24/18 10:04pm

Was offered a scholarship from BYU but not Boise

Redfiretruck

1/24/18 10:58pm

Boise has higher admission standards for athletes

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:49am

You really love this point.

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:23pm

BYU is more difficult to stay eligible...

Cougstreak

1/25/18 1:00pm

Maybe it is that byu just holds players more accountable

AC_Coug

1/25/18 2:14pm

RE: Maybe it is that byu just holds players more accountable

Cougstreak

1/25/18 2:16pm

Compared to sec and state schools I would say it is much tougher

AC_Coug

1/25/18 2:18pm

At best minimal. No real disadvantage to BYU.

Cougstreak

1/26/18 6:55am

I guess you have the answer for everything. Sorry to question you all knowing

AC_Coug

1/26/18 10:51am

Is that your response? Ha.

Cougstreak

1/26/18 11:06am

Except byu doesn’t take as many non qualifiers as possible

AC_Coug

1/30/18 8:02pm

Is there is any difference in BYU and others it is minimal.

Cougstreak

1/31/18 10:08am

But what evidence do you have that staying eligible

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:23am

Ha ha.

Cougstreak

1/31/18 11:43am

Logic is the key

AC_Coug

1/31/18 10:34pm

The NCAA even banned BYU coursework for eligibility because it was too easy

jrj84105

1/25/18 4:10pm

That was the old home school crap. Much has changed since then

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 4:54pm

Just as many anecdotes go this way than athletes getting special breaks

Claire Standish

1/24/18 11:17pm

No offense but if the coaches wanted him bad enough

RockyBalboa

1/25/18 10:14am

While it is true that they do get a break, even at BYU, the minimum

The Llama

1/25/18 8:26am

"Quite a bit higher"......not accurate

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:04am

Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

The Llama

1/25/18 9:14am

RE: Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:52am

I'll admit the use of "quite a bit higher" was probably incorrect

The Llama

1/25/18 3:13pm

Also, I never said BYU was like ND or Stanford. I said they are more strict than

The Llama

1/25/18 3:16pm

RE: Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:51am

NCAA Clearinghouse for good athletes and nonqualifier for better athletes =

ALUF 1990

1/24/18 7:27pm

Dick Harmon is a sportswriter and not an academic

CMuehle

1/24/18 7:31pm

Correct.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:44pm

Can we PLEASE stop this stupid narrative. It simply isn’t true.

itsuptoyou

1/24/18 7:56pm

That may be true at times, but I know for a fact that Bronco had a GPA standard

NewMexiCoug

1/24/18 8:01pm

How long ago? Lots of changes since 2006

Turnpike Lane

1/24/18 8:24pm

Byu has had a lot of academically ineligible players

AC_Coug

1/24/18 9:35pm

Look everyone, Dick Harmon is not known for being inaccurate or spreading false

Claire Standish

1/24/18 10:53pm

Everything he writes is a puff piece about BYU IMO. There's no way this is

Nakedbootleg

1/24/18 10:59pm

He writes what? Not that I have seen. He’s been pretty outspoken

Mathew

1/24/18 11:33pm

As a former BYU athlete, I can confirm this! Much easier to get in as an athlete

RUNBYU1

1/24/18 11:15pm

Yes, but do you know anyone who was even near the levels set on the NCAA

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 6:03am

I know a teammate who got in with an 18 on his ACT but couldn’t get in w/the 16

RUNBYU1

1/25/18 9:16am

Worth noting that he was an all-American athlete

RUNBYU1

1/25/18 9:17am

If the NCAA sliding scale was in use, that means his core course GPA would

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:02am

RE: Yes, but do you know anyone who was even near the levels set on the NCAA

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:53am

Or non-existant.

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:51am

He is correct about non-athletes

Croweater

1/25/18 11:40am

Dick Harmon is the propaganda arm of BYU, not a sportswriter

Go_Trojans

1/25/18 3:44pm

I didn't know BYU played in the Davis Cup...are we our own country? Who knew...

SneakerPimp

1/24/18 7:56pm

BYU is its own planet. Didn't you get the memo?

CougarThug

1/24/18 8:08pm

The world is our campus.

Iron Coug

1/24/18 10:01pm

Some of you guys are in for a shock when you try to get your kids into BYU...

TheLost

1/24/18 7:58pm

I think she'll get in but you still have a very good point.

soupie

1/24/18 8:00pm

She will get in and probably get scholarships.

itsuptoyou

1/24/18 8:00pm

She would be accepted in 5 seconds if she were an athlete

AZ Coug

1/24/18 8:15pm

She will get in easily, but it is getting very hard for sure.

WizeGuise

1/24/18 8:17pm

nearly everyone with those metrics got in last year. I'd bet 97% of applicants with those metrics get in this year.

HarlemCoug

1/24/18 8:30pm

My daughter had a 4.0 with 27ACT, PResident of Seminary Council, Stake Youth

TheHop

1/24/18 8:34pm

My daughter has a 4.0, 27 on her ACT, school SB president, Seminary President

OGSuperfan

1/25/18 8:53am

Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

NewYorkCougar

1/25/18 9:43am

According to BYU's webpage, the admissions rate is 53%, not exactly a

vaquero

1/24/18 9:14pm

Compared to the elite schools yes. Compared to most state schools no

AC_Coug

1/24/18 9:36pm

BYU isn't a state school. To make a better comparison on admission rates

vaquero

1/24/18 9:55pm

I’m comparing them to all schools since those are their peers

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:25pm

Admission rate tells almost nothing.

RealityCheck

1/24/18 10:09pm

Most of the 47% rejected are Females from Utah...

TheLost

1/25/18 9:05am

Another source suggests otherwise; 44% of applicants were men of which

vaquero

1/25/18 10:12am

there is a high amount of self-selection before application

Bob Vance

1/25/18 11:00am

As well there should be at any better school. BYU is not the same as

vaquero

1/25/18 11:41am

Yes, i wish the church would continue in "the education business" and expand. I think they worry about

Bob Vance

1/25/18 4:51pm

She'll get in. Seminary president?

Kerbouchard

1/24/18 10:17pm

This is true for students who graduated from a Utah High School...

TrueBlue67

1/24/18 10:29pm

No it’s not

TheHop

1/24/18 11:36pm

Its True.. Its harder to get into BYU if your from Utah and Female.

TheLost

1/25/18 8:58am

Interesting, thank you for posting.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:12am

Not true. The women thing was true but only for two years. Utah thing is bogus.

jvquarterback

1/25/18 9:47am

Interesting, thank you for posting.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 10:03am

It's not Utah students, it's west coast students, and the boost is less than 2%

SWP

1/25/18 10:57am

Reason # 23,823 to not live in Utah!!

CObluezone

1/25/18 4:30am

Mostly cuz schools elsewhere in the country (not everywhere, mind you) are quite

mantis mutu

1/25/18 7:05am

BYU Grads all have about 5 kids and then want all their kids to go to BYU.

baldcoug74

1/24/18 10:35pm

They post averages right on their sight. She'll get in unless

canofpicante

1/24/18 10:40pm

She will get in. 100%. That’s an auto lock for admission.

yapacoug

1/24/18 10:56pm

As a scholarship athlete, I got in with a 28 ACT and 3.3 GPA 15 years ago. I

RUNBYU1

1/24/18 10:58pm

I wouldn't let her in because seminary president is a stupid thing.

Turd Ferguson

1/24/18 11:01pm

Toughest denial which I've seen relatively closely

cajuncoug

1/24/18 11:05pm

Told by who?

JuicyJam

1/25/18 5:59am

Who told you she wouldn't get in? That person is terribly wrong.

mudpupper

1/25/18 8:59am

My wife is Hispanic, so my kids will get in 🙂.

dYrtbYkerYder

1/25/18 11:04am

Your daughter will get in. Quit worrying.

kccougar

1/25/18 11:41am

Is she from Utah? I've seen out of staters get in with much worse grades

D.T. Survivor

1/25/18 1:29pm

This is true for the typical student. However, students with special talents and

Monomachos

1/24/18 8:24pm

To say athletes get no breaks because there

bluegato

1/24/18 9:02pm

It's deficit hard to get into BYU, unless you are an athlete. He's conflating to separate things

Adrielle

1/24/18 9:12pm

There are players on the team that didn't get even a 20 on the ACT.

LifelongAP

1/24/18 9:48pm

If so, it's exception and special circumstances and not the norm

Claire Standish

1/24/18 10:40pm

No. Athletes who have care about school are the exception.

itsuptoyou

1/25/18 6:30am

you are dead wrong. It's the norm not the exception with athletes.

A Drew Aitch

1/25/18 7:25am

Here is the NCAA admissions sliding Test/GPA scale. Basically, a 10 ACT

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 5:59am

This is why Utah and frankly Utah State could become a bigger threat to BYU.

saltlakecoug1

1/24/18 10:12pm

BYU’s counter is that they have LOWER academic requirements

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:13pm

I got in by an act of heaven

SalemBlue

1/24/18 10:59pm

Yeah, those things USED to happen. Thankfully for many of us.

mantis mutu

1/24/18 11:21pm

Oh boy. Here we go.

Gerald-DeGroot

1/24/18 11:45pm

He's right. Remember that streak KVN had on Jeopardy?

uberslacker

1/25/18 4:48am

this is completely false

PickleButton

1/25/18 6:32am

Zero credibility to this post or interview.....simply what the OP/Harmon is....

Cougstreak

1/25/18 8:05am

BYU has an enrollment of 33k, but should really be closer to 50k mark....

Guy On A Buffalo

1/25/18 8:42am

I disagree - I think we need fewer people. The church spends way too much tithing dollars on BYU. Expanding would

HarlemCoug

1/25/18 9:28am

And - as Arizona State has discovered - pushing enrollment over 50k lowers the

Game Changer

1/25/18 3:09pm

Michigan State has over 50k, Ohio State has over 60k. Nobody saying that those

Guy On A Buffalo

1/26/18 8:53am

Actually, pretty much everybody agrees that Michigan and Ohio State would be

Game Changer

1/27/18 1:23pm

IMHO they should jump to 50K and double tuition...reduce the subsidy

Nat Gas Man

1/27/18 4:49pm

Having been involved in admissions at small, selective private universities,

NYCUte

1/25/18 9:01am

All due respect to Dick Harmon but...

originalsocal

1/25/18 9:05am

He HAD great sources. Not even sure what he's got anymore. His location in SLC

mantis mutu

1/25/18 9:18am

I suspect HB Arnett would take offense to that comparison 🙂

AZ Coug

1/25/18 3:19pm

Acceptance Rates

Jeffacka

1/25/18 9:25am

I assumed some of those schools had to be under 30%.

mantis mutu

1/25/18 9:28am

BYU's more on par with Big Ten or ACC state schools for acceptance rate

The Chelsea Dagger

1/25/18 10:00am

We're actually on par w the Pac. There's a rather steep inequality among its

mantis mutu

1/25/18 10:14am

My point is that BYU has very few peers in the Pac 12 based on acceptance rate

The Chelsea Dagger

1/25/18 12:02pm

That is a meaningless statistic for BYU. Big school with a very limited pool of

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 1:37pm

Bigger problem is that you can get a 4.0 at some schools with minimal effort...

Fdnman

1/25/18 1:57pm

that happened to my son as well when we moved to Chicago. 4.0 student

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 2:03pm

I actually got lucky as they took all of my As and transferred them to As in the

Fdnman

1/25/18 2:07pm

which school, my son went to Libertyville, but there are some great schools

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 2:14pm

St. Charles High School...north of Naperville

Fdnman

1/25/18 5:39pm

USC and Stanford are both tougher to get in to than the UCs and UW.

Jeffacka

1/25/18 10:33am

Yeah the UCs and USC are very hard, Stanford is ridiculous hard

Turd Ferguson

1/25/18 10:43am

BYU isn't too far off from that number. If BYU reduced the undergrad population

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 3:05pm

RE: "we can't give special breaks to athletes"... Um

jomo

1/25/18 10:34am

I've wondered why BYU doesn't allow dropage on GPA for sports players?

stealth

1/25/18 1:11pm

They do. Athlete admissions are a much lower bar.

itsuptoyou

1/26/18 10:10am

I'd never get into BYU now

CharlottesvilleCoug

1/25/18 4:10pm

BYU average GPA and ACT scores are higher than USC.

oldrugger

1/25/18 6:06pm

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