And - as Arizona State has discovered - pushing enrollment over 50k lowers the

My son is in 9th grade and I have got to give him other options....

idacoug

1/24/18 7:21pm

Idacoug...gotta love BYU-Idaho baby

OU Cougar

1/24/18 7:59pm

Funny how BYU students are suddenly nerds when your kids can’t get in

SneakerPimp

1/24/18 8:47pm

I called byu nerdtown when I was there 20 years ago, but nice assumption.

idacoug

1/24/18 10:14pm

Me too but can only imagine what it is now.

timponyloco

1/24/18 11:02pm

<< Deleted >>

JupiterJones

1/25/18 3:31pm

BYU students have always been a unique bunch

cedar cougar

1/25/18 6:50am

As far as I know, the "tunnel singing" thing isn't a new phenomenon.

Eddie

1/25/18 10:08am

Why not just own it?

ditch

1/25/18 11:47am

That's kinda the definition of 'Nerd'

Dissenter

1/25/18 11:51am

Thanks for trying

ditch

1/25/18 12:48pm

Only a nerd would look up the real definition.

ditch

1/25/18 12:52pm

And I'm not even claiming to be smart.

ditch

1/25/18 12:53pm

Geeks, not nerds.

JupiterJones

1/25/18 3:32pm

go to SLCC for a year and transfer

MWKV3

1/24/18 10:48pm

Even transferring is hard. My son did not get in with an Associates degree.

scott715

1/24/18 11:28pm

Getting accepted as a transfer depends on your GPA; must be atleast 3.85.

LifelongAP

1/24/18 11:38pm

<< Deleted >>

BaseballCoug

1/24/18 11:53pm

I transferred from UVSC (before UVU) with a 3.4

DCCougFan

1/25/18 7:06am

I think what did him in was lack of extracurricular activities.

scott715

1/25/18 9:13am

that's the average for out of high school, for transfers it's 3.3 I think

Hill4Heisman

1/25/18 1:26pm

My daughter tried to transfer from Chandler-Gilbert before her mission and got rejected...

Adrielle

1/30/18 8:58pm

I got in in 2011 with under a 3.0. There's hope

Dissenter

1/25/18 11:51am

I don't believe that for a second. Athletes certainly get breaks. If you're a good athlete with a 19 ACT score and a 2.5

Brisco

1/24/18 7:23pm

Harmon covers BYU and recruiting year in and out

Claire Standish

1/24/18 7:26pm

I’ll bet there are a bunch of scholarship football players with minimal

idacoug

1/24/18 7:30pm

IIRC BYU does not accept the NCAA minimum

Nat Gas Man

1/24/18 7:30pm

I'll buy that. You scarecly have to know how to read to clear the NCAA minimum.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:43pm

Dayan didn’t clear the minimum

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:45am

He's not the only one. BYU is actively recruiting non-qualifiers by telling

Scratch

1/25/18 10:52am

See how many kids have BYU and Marshall offers

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:57am

I am quite sure that Utah uses its full allotment of non-qualifiers:

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:18am

Utah does occasionally. I think they only allow one per team every couple of

Scratch

1/25/18 11:33am

4 per school per academic year for the school's entire AD.

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:35am

That's what the conference allows. Utah then limits them so that they get spread

Scratch

1/25/18 11:41am

That’s a conference rule, not a Utah rule. MWC allows none.

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:07pm

I've been told by someone in football that there are both. The conference has

Scratch

1/25/18 12:40pm

PAC rule: Two men, Two women, no more than 1 per sport.

jrj84105

1/25/18 11:54am

You don't know that it was GPA or ACT. It could have been a mix-up on

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:08am

But the issue was that he never cleared the NCAA clearinghouse and that did not

Scratch

1/25/18 11:35am

By the way, this was the same thing that happened with Pita T. If you recall,

Scratch

1/25/18 11:40am

And yet we know Utah takes non qualifiers

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:45pm

The issue is BYU coaches getting a pass for recruiting failure based on falacy

jrj84105

1/25/18 3:42pm

This was not the case under Bronco, which is my point. Pita T occurred under

NewMexiCoug

1/27/18 12:22pm

You’re missing the point on Lake. Even if they thought Lake would qualify,

Scratch

1/27/18 12:58pm

That’s just entrance. What about staying eligible?

AC_Coug

1/29/18 11:21pm

RE: That’s just entrance. What about staying eligible?

jrj84105

1/30/18 8:05am

Compelling evidence here

jrj84105

1/30/18 8:08am

I got into byu as an undergrad applicant and for grad school. Next

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:33am

Actually compelling evidence that Utah players I knew

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:36am

With all the help they receive, there's no excuse for players just about

Scratch

1/30/18 8:59am

Byu has taken one non qualifier that we know of

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:32am

You’re absolutely wrong on both accounts.

jrj84105

1/29/18 10:21pm

Kids as in Dayan Lake because the rest is pure conjecture

AC_Coug

1/30/18 10:36pm

Just because they aren't public like Lake doesn't make it conjecture.

Scratch

1/31/18 9:06am

Sure it does. Just because they can doesn’t mean they do

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:08am

Yes they do. Because they are not public does not mean that there are no people

Scratch

1/31/18 11:15am

But do you know of any?

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:18am

Yes I do. Several. A couple of current players and a couple of current recruits.

Scratch

1/31/18 11:32am

You have a lot of people willing to confide very personal

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:46am

I do recall Pita T, but your characterization of the events is not accuratre

NewMexiCoug

1/27/18 12:20pm

You’re wrong. Utah got Pita qualified. If it had just been the NQ waiver he

Scratch

1/27/18 12:48pm

If you followed recruiting.....

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:06pm

I sure hope so. We'd be dumb not to

Ulysses14

1/24/18 7:41pm

That is definitely true.

AZ Coug

1/24/18 8:12pm

Check your boardmail.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:40pm

If an athlete did have lower score/grades, it's likely an exception to the norm

Claire Standish

1/24/18 7:58pm

Claire, Claire, Claire.

Brisco

1/24/18 8:09pm

Give the Harmon interview a listen before rushing to judgement

Claire Standish

1/24/18 8:42pm

I can tell you with 100% confidence that athletes at BYU do get "special breaks"

goldy

1/24/18 10:54pm

A relative of mine was recruited to play a sport for BYU. Coach said: "Send...

cougarmeister

1/24/18 10:53pm

The same can also be said in other programs but perhaps not

soupie

1/24/18 11:05pm

Well now we know what the average GPA is 3.9 and the ACT is 29.6

Nat Gas Man

1/24/18 11:12pm

And doesn't have near the access and contacts that he used to have. Makes a lot

basman

1/24/18 8:18pm

His deductive processing has always been suspect too. And his hard-working

mantis mutu

1/24/18 11:17pm

There are plenty of kids on the football team who do not meet the academic

Nagurski

1/25/18 10:28am

Know a kid w/ Utah offer to play FB a few yrs ago. Not even offered

soupie

1/24/18 7:54pm

I have a hard time believing there weren't other factors tht were the real issue

mantis mutu

1/25/18 12:11am

had to be an excuse - I know of player on the team that was told they could

truecougster

1/25/18 12:25am

A friend of mine was admitted with a 24 ACT and 3.5 GPA. He was not an athlete.

Gorum the Old

1/25/18 6:57am

The averages have been creeping up every year. Maybe this was the public

soupie

1/25/18 7:54am

At a previous job, I looked at application details as part of my job function...

lspin01l

1/24/18 8:23pm

Just like it works at most schools

Kerbouchard

1/25/18 11:00am

Not for football under Bronco.

NewMexiCoug

1/24/18 9:16pm

I wouldn’t be too sure. My friend was a football recruit

Redfiretruck

1/24/18 10:01pm

Night and day difference for a walkon.

Scratch

1/24/18 10:04pm

Was offered a scholarship from BYU but not Boise

Redfiretruck

1/24/18 10:58pm

Boise has higher admission standards for athletes

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:49am

You really love this point.

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:23pm

BYU is more difficult to stay eligible...

Cougstreak

1/25/18 1:00pm

Maybe it is that byu just holds players more accountable

AC_Coug

1/25/18 2:14pm

RE: Maybe it is that byu just holds players more accountable

Cougstreak

1/25/18 2:16pm

Compared to sec and state schools I would say it is much tougher

AC_Coug

1/25/18 2:18pm

At best minimal. No real disadvantage to BYU.

Cougstreak

1/26/18 6:55am

I guess you have the answer for everything. Sorry to question you all knowing

AC_Coug

1/26/18 10:51am

Is that your response? Ha.

Cougstreak

1/26/18 11:06am

Except byu doesn’t take as many non qualifiers as possible

AC_Coug

1/30/18 8:02pm

Is there is any difference in BYU and others it is minimal.

Cougstreak

1/31/18 10:08am

But what evidence do you have that staying eligible

AC_Coug

1/31/18 11:23am

Ha ha.

Cougstreak

1/31/18 11:43am

Logic is the key

AC_Coug

1/31/18 10:34pm

The NCAA even banned BYU coursework for eligibility because it was too easy

jrj84105

1/25/18 4:10pm

That was the old home school crap. Much has changed since then

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 4:54pm

Just as many anecdotes go this way than athletes getting special breaks

Claire Standish

1/24/18 11:17pm

No offense but if the coaches wanted him bad enough

RockyBalboa

1/25/18 10:14am

While it is true that they do get a break, even at BYU, the minimum

The Llama

1/25/18 8:26am

"Quite a bit higher"......not accurate

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:04am

Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

The Llama

1/25/18 9:14am

RE: Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:52am

I'll admit the use of "quite a bit higher" was probably incorrect

The Llama

1/25/18 3:13pm

Also, I never said BYU was like ND or Stanford. I said they are more strict than

The Llama

1/25/18 3:16pm

RE: Well, I'm happy to say I'm wrong if you would explain your reasoning.

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:51am

NCAA Clearinghouse for good athletes and nonqualifier for better athletes =

ALUF 1990

1/24/18 7:27pm

Dick Harmon is a sportswriter and not an academic

CMuehle

1/24/18 7:31pm

Correct.

Brisco

1/24/18 7:44pm

Can we PLEASE stop this stupid narrative. It simply isn’t true.

itsuptoyou

1/24/18 7:56pm

That may be true at times, but I know for a fact that Bronco had a GPA standard

NewMexiCoug

1/24/18 8:01pm

How long ago? Lots of changes since 2006

Turnpike Lane

1/24/18 8:24pm

Byu has had a lot of academically ineligible players

AC_Coug

1/24/18 9:35pm

Look everyone, Dick Harmon is not known for being inaccurate or spreading false

Claire Standish

1/24/18 10:53pm

Everything he writes is a puff piece about BYU IMO. There's no way this is

Nakedbootleg

1/24/18 10:59pm

He writes what? Not that I have seen. He’s been pretty outspoken

Mathew

1/24/18 11:33pm

As a former BYU athlete, I can confirm this! Much easier to get in as an athlete

RUNBYU1

1/24/18 11:15pm

Yes, but do you know anyone who was even near the levels set on the NCAA

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 6:03am

I know a teammate who got in with an 18 on his ACT but couldn’t get in w/the 16

RUNBYU1

1/25/18 9:16am

Worth noting that he was an all-American athlete

RUNBYU1

1/25/18 9:17am

If the NCAA sliding scale was in use, that means his core course GPA would

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 11:02am

RE: Yes, but do you know anyone who was even near the levels set on the NCAA

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:53am

Or non-existant.

jrj84105

1/25/18 10:51am

He is correct about non-athletes

Croweater

1/25/18 11:40am

Dick Harmon is the propaganda arm of BYU, not a sportswriter

Go_Trojans

1/25/18 3:44pm

I didn't know BYU played in the Davis Cup...are we our own country? Who knew...

SneakerPimp

1/24/18 7:56pm

BYU is its own planet. Didn't you get the memo?

CougarThug

1/24/18 8:08pm

The world is our campus.

Iron Coug

1/24/18 10:01pm

Some of you guys are in for a shock when you try to get your kids into BYU...

TheLost

1/24/18 7:58pm

I think she'll get in but you still have a very good point.

soupie

1/24/18 8:00pm

She will get in and probably get scholarships.

itsuptoyou

1/24/18 8:00pm

She would be accepted in 5 seconds if she were an athlete

AZ Coug

1/24/18 8:15pm

She will get in easily, but it is getting very hard for sure.

WizeGuise

1/24/18 8:17pm

nearly everyone with those metrics got in last year. I'd bet 97% of applicants with those metrics get in this year.

HarlemCoug

1/24/18 8:30pm

My daughter had a 4.0 with 27ACT, PResident of Seminary Council, Stake Youth

TheHop

1/24/18 8:34pm

My daughter has a 4.0, 27 on her ACT, school SB president, Seminary President

OGSuperfan

1/25/18 8:53am

Well played, sir. Well played, indeed.

NewYorkCougar

1/25/18 9:43am

According to BYU's webpage, the admissions rate is 53%, not exactly a

vaquero

1/24/18 9:14pm

Compared to the elite schools yes. Compared to most state schools no

AC_Coug

1/24/18 9:36pm

BYU isn't a state school. To make a better comparison on admission rates

vaquero

1/24/18 9:55pm

I’m comparing them to all schools since those are their peers

AC_Coug

1/25/18 12:25pm

Admission rate tells almost nothing.

RealityCheck

1/24/18 10:09pm

Most of the 47% rejected are Females from Utah...

TheLost

1/25/18 9:05am

Another source suggests otherwise; 44% of applicants were men of which

vaquero

1/25/18 10:12am

there is a high amount of self-selection before application

Bob Vance

1/25/18 11:00am

As well there should be at any better school. BYU is not the same as

vaquero

1/25/18 11:41am

Yes, i wish the church would continue in "the education business" and expand. I think they worry about

Bob Vance

1/25/18 4:51pm

She'll get in. Seminary president?

Kerbouchard

1/24/18 10:17pm

This is true for students who graduated from a Utah High School...

TrueBlue67

1/24/18 10:29pm

No it’s not

TheHop

1/24/18 11:36pm

Its True.. Its harder to get into BYU if your from Utah and Female.

TheLost

1/25/18 8:58am

Interesting, thank you for posting.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 9:12am

Not true. The women thing was true but only for two years. Utah thing is bogus.

jvquarterback

1/25/18 9:47am

Interesting, thank you for posting.

Cougstreak

1/25/18 10:03am

It's not Utah students, it's west coast students, and the boost is less than 2%

SWP

1/25/18 10:57am

Reason # 23,823 to not live in Utah!!

CObluezone

1/25/18 4:30am

Mostly cuz schools elsewhere in the country (not everywhere, mind you) are quite

mantis mutu

1/25/18 7:05am

BYU Grads all have about 5 kids and then want all their kids to go to BYU.

baldcoug74

1/24/18 10:35pm

They post averages right on their sight. She'll get in unless

canofpicante

1/24/18 10:40pm

She will get in. 100%. That’s an auto lock for admission.

yapacoug

1/24/18 10:56pm

As a scholarship athlete, I got in with a 28 ACT and 3.3 GPA 15 years ago. I

RUNBYU1

1/24/18 10:58pm

I wouldn't let her in because seminary president is a stupid thing.

Turd Ferguson

1/24/18 11:01pm

Toughest denial which I've seen relatively closely

cajuncoug

1/24/18 11:05pm

Told by who?

JuicyJam

1/25/18 5:59am

Who told you she wouldn't get in? That person is terribly wrong.

mudpupper

1/25/18 8:59am

My wife is Hispanic, so my kids will get in 🙂.

dYrtbYkerYder

1/25/18 11:04am

Your daughter will get in. Quit worrying.

kccougar

1/25/18 11:41am

Is she from Utah? I've seen out of staters get in with much worse grades

D.T. Survivor

1/25/18 1:29pm

This is true for the typical student. However, students with special talents and

Monomachos

1/24/18 8:24pm

To say athletes get no breaks because there

bluegato

1/24/18 9:02pm

It's deficit hard to get into BYU, unless you are an athlete. He's conflating to separate things

Adrielle

1/24/18 9:12pm

There are players on the team that didn't get even a 20 on the ACT.

LifelongAP

1/24/18 9:48pm

If so, it's exception and special circumstances and not the norm

Claire Standish

1/24/18 10:40pm

No. Athletes who have care about school are the exception.

itsuptoyou

1/25/18 6:30am

you are dead wrong. It's the norm not the exception with athletes.

A Drew Aitch

1/25/18 7:25am

Here is the NCAA admissions sliding Test/GPA scale. Basically, a 10 ACT

NewMexiCoug

1/25/18 5:59am

This is why Utah and frankly Utah State could become a bigger threat to BYU.

saltlakecoug1

1/24/18 10:12pm

BYU’s counter is that they have LOWER academic requirements

jrj84105

1/25/18 12:13pm

I got in by an act of heaven

SalemBlue

1/24/18 10:59pm

Yeah, those things USED to happen. Thankfully for many of us.

mantis mutu

1/24/18 11:21pm

Oh boy. Here we go.

Gerald-DeGroot

1/24/18 11:45pm

He's right. Remember that streak KVN had on Jeopardy?

uberslacker

1/25/18 4:48am

this is completely false

PickleButton

1/25/18 6:32am

Zero credibility to this post or interview.....simply what the OP/Harmon is....

Cougstreak

1/25/18 8:05am

BYU has an enrollment of 33k, but should really be closer to 50k mark....

Guy On A Buffalo

1/25/18 8:42am

I disagree - I think we need fewer people. The church spends way too much tithing dollars on BYU. Expanding would

HarlemCoug

1/25/18 9:28am

And - as Arizona State has discovered - pushing enrollment over 50k lowers the

Game Changer

1/25/18 3:09pm

Michigan State has over 50k, Ohio State has over 60k. Nobody saying that those

Guy On A Buffalo

1/26/18 8:53am

Actually, pretty much everybody agrees that Michigan and Ohio State would be

Game Changer

1/27/18 1:23pm

IMHO they should jump to 50K and double tuition...reduce the subsidy

Nat Gas Man

1/27/18 4:49pm

Having been involved in admissions at small, selective private universities,

NYCUte

1/25/18 9:01am

All due respect to Dick Harmon but...

originalsocal

1/25/18 9:05am

He HAD great sources. Not even sure what he's got anymore. His location in SLC

mantis mutu

1/25/18 9:18am

I suspect HB Arnett would take offense to that comparison 🙂

AZ Coug

1/25/18 3:19pm

Acceptance Rates

Jeffacka

1/25/18 9:25am

I assumed some of those schools had to be under 30%.

mantis mutu

1/25/18 9:28am

BYU's more on par with Big Ten or ACC state schools for acceptance rate

The Chelsea Dagger

1/25/18 10:00am

We're actually on par w the Pac. There's a rather steep inequality among its

mantis mutu

1/25/18 10:14am

My point is that BYU has very few peers in the Pac 12 based on acceptance rate

The Chelsea Dagger

1/25/18 12:02pm

That is a meaningless statistic for BYU. Big school with a very limited pool of

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 1:37pm

Bigger problem is that you can get a 4.0 at some schools with minimal effort...

Fdnman

1/25/18 1:57pm

that happened to my son as well when we moved to Chicago. 4.0 student

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 2:03pm

I actually got lucky as they took all of my As and transferred them to As in the

Fdnman

1/25/18 2:07pm

which school, my son went to Libertyville, but there are some great schools

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 2:14pm

St. Charles High School...north of Naperville

Fdnman

1/25/18 5:39pm

USC and Stanford are both tougher to get in to than the UCs and UW.

Jeffacka

1/25/18 10:33am

Yeah the UCs and USC are very hard, Stanford is ridiculous hard

Turd Ferguson

1/25/18 10:43am

BYU isn't too far off from that number. If BYU reduced the undergrad population

Nat Gas Man

1/25/18 3:05pm

RE: "we can't give special breaks to athletes"... Um

jomo

1/25/18 10:34am

I've wondered why BYU doesn't allow dropage on GPA for sports players?

stealth

1/25/18 1:11pm

They do. Athlete admissions are a much lower bar.

itsuptoyou

1/26/18 10:10am

I'd never get into BYU now

CharlottesvilleCoug

1/25/18 4:10pm

BYU average GPA and ACT scores are higher than USC.

oldrugger

1/25/18 6:06pm

Posting on CougarBoard