Nov 6, 2019
9:55:49pm
9:55:49pm
So many things wrong here. Median GPA for U law is 3.60 at BYU it is 3.82. LSAT
for BYU, median is 90th percentile(164) and Utah is 80th Percentile (160). The caliber of students admitted at the two schools is significantly different.
Also, Big LAw is not firms of 100 attorneys or more, that isn't even remotely true. There are 0 firms with 100-to 200 attorneys that are considered "Big Law." Anyone in that range would be considered regional. It also has way more to do with prestige than size. I got an offer from a firm with over 1,000 attorneys and it was definitely not considered Big Law. While Wachtell with only a few hundred attorneys is definitely Big Law. It is consistently ranked 1st or 2nd. And most Harvard grads don't even have a shot at an interview there.
Tier 1 is generally considered top 50, what you describe as Tier 1 is generally just called T14. But, whatever that is just semantics and I've seen both used. T14 students can definitely not get a job anywhere they want if they are in the bottom half of their class, they will be lucky to get a big law job. And a T30 student outside the top 30% of their class is not likely to get an actual Big Law job. So no they cannot generally get a big law job. In fact, they generally cannot get a Big Law job.
And BYU and Utah are not the same in terms of the markets they feed. BYU has way more attorneys in New York, DC, and other markets. Utah students who want to leave the state struggle to do so. Utah does well with Salt Lake and that is about it. This bears out if you look at median salaries. Median starting salary for BYU law grad this past year in private practice was $120,000 and for Utah $84,000.
Go look through the top 10 law firm directories. BYU has at least one or two grads at each of the top 10 firms in the country(except Wachtell) and most of them are recent grads. Utah has almost none. BYU Students also do much better in terms of clerkships.
So, yes BYU can argue about being better than Utah. There is a huge difference when it comes to caliber of its grads, it is a lot more than 8 spots. The biggest factors working against BYU in the USN rankings is faculty perception of the school among professors (Prop 8 payback) and diversity (which has improved). In the objective measures that actually matter to non-academics (admissions and employment) BYU is miles ahead of Utah. Utah does have the new building the church helped build going for them, so there is that.
Also, Big LAw is not firms of 100 attorneys or more, that isn't even remotely true. There are 0 firms with 100-to 200 attorneys that are considered "Big Law." Anyone in that range would be considered regional. It also has way more to do with prestige than size. I got an offer from a firm with over 1,000 attorneys and it was definitely not considered Big Law. While Wachtell with only a few hundred attorneys is definitely Big Law. It is consistently ranked 1st or 2nd. And most Harvard grads don't even have a shot at an interview there.
Tier 1 is generally considered top 50, what you describe as Tier 1 is generally just called T14. But, whatever that is just semantics and I've seen both used. T14 students can definitely not get a job anywhere they want if they are in the bottom half of their class, they will be lucky to get a big law job. And a T30 student outside the top 30% of their class is not likely to get an actual Big Law job. So no they cannot generally get a big law job. In fact, they generally cannot get a Big Law job.
And BYU and Utah are not the same in terms of the markets they feed. BYU has way more attorneys in New York, DC, and other markets. Utah students who want to leave the state struggle to do so. Utah does well with Salt Lake and that is about it. This bears out if you look at median salaries. Median starting salary for BYU law grad this past year in private practice was $120,000 and for Utah $84,000.
Go look through the top 10 law firm directories. BYU has at least one or two grads at each of the top 10 firms in the country(except Wachtell) and most of them are recent grads. Utah has almost none. BYU Students also do much better in terms of clerkships.
So, yes BYU can argue about being better than Utah. There is a huge difference when it comes to caliber of its grads, it is a lot more than 8 spots. The biggest factors working against BYU in the USN rankings is faculty perception of the school among professors (Prop 8 payback) and diversity (which has improved). In the objective measures that actually matter to non-academics (admissions and employment) BYU is miles ahead of Utah. Utah does have the new building the church helped build going for them, so there is that.
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11/6/19 12:11pm
11/6/19 12:12pm
BYU will always have undergrad smack because it is primarily an undergraduate institution. That's the mission.
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