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Oct 7, 2015
10:48
:10
am
Bob Vance
Funny, I misunderstood the tone of your comment. Looks like same page.
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Bob Vance
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Bob Vance
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Feb 13, 2006
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Jun 6, 2024
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51,686 (7,109 FO)
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Messages
Author
Time
A black eye on BYU?
newbie
10/7/15 9:07am
Yes. I believe it's been discussed a few times on here in the past.
benny1982
10/7/15 9:10am
Or it could be a situation where, since we only ever hear one side of the
benny1982
10/7/15 9:12am
It is the policy. It's right there in the honor code
DapperDan
10/7/15 9:47am
it's not true, remember Luke Ashworth left the church and still stayed at BYU
JONBOY
10/7/15 9:10am
it is true, but exceptions can be made
cougarmanguy
10/7/15 9:14am
Doesn't hurt to be a starter on the football team
Saxa
10/7/15 10:32am
Ashworth made his change well before becoming a starter.
NewMexiCoug
10/7/15 9:03pm
RE: it's not true, remember Luke Ashworth left the church and still stayed at
foofcoug
10/7/15 9:14am
I'd be curious to know how the exceptions to endorsement process works
Mems
10/7/15 9:24am
Did he "disaffiliate" or just go less active? Maybe there is a difference there
blueaussie
10/7/15 9:18am
He became a born-again christian
g$
10/7/15 10:09am
Yea I just kind of wondered if maybe it didn't become official til after he left
blueaussie
10/7/15 12:17pm
RE: He became a born-again christian
TaiJuan
10/7/15 12:24pm
Ao disadfiliation is having your name removed from the records of the church.
blueaussie
10/7/15 12:56pm
He joined another church. You can petition to stay.
gwalker
10/7/15 10:10am
I don't know if expel is the right word, but you are no longer in good standing
Baron
10/7/15 9:13am
That makes no sense
southernfriedcougar
10/7/15 9:19am
It's so ironic how often the HC HIGHLY incentivizes students to be dishonest.
Byron McNertney
10/7/15 9:31am
I don't get the idea that BYU is violating someone's "religious liberty" by not
hansel
10/7/15 9:14am
They can go elsewhere. They don't have to go to BYU.
foofcoug
10/7/15 9:21am
Isn't it taught that they should be loving and welcoming to everyone?
Ygirl
10/8/15 9:30am
This is different. The symposium relates to religious freedoms. BYU's policy
Baron
10/7/15 9:22am
And that's not an unreasonable conclusion. The other side is that religous
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:27am
He's not talking about the principle of religious freedom generally. If he
hansel
10/7/15 9:27am
The policy isn't limiting their right to express or practice religious freedom
morningcalmcougar
10/8/15 5:37am
And what if they still agree to abide by the honor code?
Ygirl
10/8/15 8:46am
"These aren't anti Mormons were talking about."
TaiJuan
10/8/15 8:52am
My thoughts exactly
morningcalmcougar
10/8/15 7:50pm
But these are people already attending BYU and having that taken away for a
DoseOfReality
10/7/15 9:24am
No doubt there is more to the story, but I doubt the Trib searched too hard, b/c
Iman23
10/7/15 9:17am
I find that illogical, it is discrimination against LDS members. A Catholic at
DoseOfReality
10/7/15 9:21am
There is no equal protection argument here. You might not like how it looks, but
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:24am
There is much latitude afforded to religious schools, but it is not limitless.
DoseOfReality
10/7/15 9:29am
If you want to wade in here with some conclusions, I would like to see the cases
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:31am
Religious institutions can discriminate on a religious basis. It's fundamental.
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:31am
Agree, but public opinion does matter to the reputation of the institution
zuxvon
10/7/15 11:30am
They charge different faiths different tuition rates, looks legal to me.
Mems
10/7/15 9:36am
You do realize that the equal protection guarantees in the Constitution
jbcoug
10/7/15 9:38am
it's not a legal issue
cougarmanguy
10/7/15 9:24am
I think it has to depend on the circumstances. There are certainly situations
Bob Vance
10/7/15 9:28am
But the church knew that going in with the Catholic.
Coach's Dad
10/7/15 9:54am
Here's an old thread on the same issue.
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:22am
Well, there is no question that their tuition should have to go up
Bob Vance
10/7/15 9:26am
Expelling a student for sedition is very different than for religious reasons.
Byron McNertney
10/7/15 9:35am
Sedition is the only way to fight against the school?
Bob Vance
10/7/15 9:40am
So...you agree with me? Your tone says you don't, your words say you do.
Byron McNertney
10/7/15 9:44am
Funny, I misunderstood the tone of your comment. Looks like same page.
Bob Vance
10/7/15 10:48am
I think I tried to agree and add to your comment in 80 characters. Not easy.
Byron McNertney
10/7/15 11:20am
Definitely depends on the circumstances - that's why the rule should focus on
jayriggity
10/7/15 9:53am
I completely agree. And don't see anything wrong with raising tuition for anyone
Ygirl
10/8/15 9:19am
BYU has the right to do it. But it's a dumb policy.
Jeremy
10/7/15 9:33am
I think this is probably the right answer. Faith crises aren't easy for anyone
Iman23
10/7/15 9:36am
From the church's view, wouldn't they want to keep students who are questioning
Ygirl
10/8/15 9:27am
Questioning faith is not usually the same as removing a name from the records.
TaiJuan
10/8/15 9:45am
Also, I don't claim to be LDS anymore but BYU is a great school I considered
Ygirl
10/8/15 9:28am
What if someone comes in as a non-member, joins the Church
argla
10/7/15 9:33am
If they voluntarily disaffiliate, they lose honor code standing.
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:36am
True but I think the point is, it shouldn't be grounds for loss of standing
Iman23
10/7/15 9:37am
I don't know that I fully agree
cougarmanguy
10/7/15 9:55am
It looks bad. Put yourself on the outside looking in. It makes it seem that BYU
pink22
10/7/15 9:44am
I think your last sentence outlines what I think as well.
Turnpike Lane
10/7/15 9:56am
How do you determine whether they are doing that or going to do that though?
Coach's Dad
10/7/15 9:58am
they still have to receive an ecclesiastical endorsement
g$
10/7/15 10:18am
The same way it's done now
pink22
10/7/15 10:31am
My policy thoughts, if I were in charge...
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:56am
The problem is that anyone who takes an affirmative step to remove their name
TaiJuan
10/7/15 9:59am
I agree. It is a practical matter as well. Otherwise everything is shades of
AF Cougar
10/7/15 10:16am
As long as students get fair chance to stay I would be fine with it. I don't
Baron
10/7/15 10:02am
Basically, the student moves to being under a microscope. I can't imagine it's
TaiJuan
10/7/15 10:05am
I think the difference is automatic expulsion with a chance to be exempt versus
morningcalmcougar
10/8/15 5:43am
Why does the disassociated kid have different "expressive" restrictions than
jayriggity
10/7/15 10:06am
You are demonstrating why the policy works as it currently does.
TaiJuan
10/7/15 10:09am
I guess I don't get it. How?
jayriggity
10/7/15 10:19am
Should John Dehlin be allowed to remain at BYU if he were a student at the time
TaiJuan
10/7/15 10:24am
Maybe? IDK. I'm just exploring the ideas. Do you think that a catholic with exac
jayriggity
10/7/15 11:01am
I don't think the issue is discussing it with roomates in a private setting
morningcalmcougar
10/8/15 5:49am
Not sure why people think it is a dumb policy...there is a difference of
Fdnman
10/7/15 10:06am
It's an awful big decision to a believing member of the Church. I've been
Byron McNertney
10/7/15 10:17am
I knew a few who left the church and weren't kicked out. And some that were. My
rcbyufan
10/7/15 10:14am
Very much true. And probably a dumb rule. Should be changed.
Real Men Wear Blue
10/7/15 10:59am
Well, if anyone would know about discriminatory policies at a university
BeardedSpock
10/7/15 1:00pm
It's not just a matter of membership. It's about breaking covenants.
panguitch
10/8/15 12:23pm
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