the subject matter is different but the principle is the same

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Mar 31, 2015
11:04:35am

byujag

they're trying to blame the Bishop when it's really their own actions which are responsible for the expulsion

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byujag

Bio page: byujag
Joined: Jun 20, 2005
Last login: Apr 27, 2024
Total posts: 23,518 (664 FO)

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Messages

Author

Time

BYU article on Daily Beast and Yahoo, BYU's accreditation is being challenged

JOPE

3/31/15 10:27am

This probably isn't a popular opinion on here but I think the academic and the

kudzucoug

3/31/15 10:29am

Was that not the way it was under President Holland?

Busiturtle

3/31/15 10:30am

J. Golden Kimball, an apostle, would not have been able to live the honor code.

coldcoug

3/31/15 10:42am

What did he do which was against the HC

RC Vikings

3/31/15 11:19am

"Use clean language". That wasn't his style.

coldcoug

3/31/15 11:49am

As I remember it, Golden wasn't an apostle, he was a 70. And

westcoastcoug

3/31/15 1:07pm

But, I'm not a big fan of the Honor Code office getting any more power

SoCalCoug

3/31/15 10:31am

this is a good point

JOPE

3/31/15 10:33am

Agreed - overall I think giving MORE power to the bishops would be a good thing.

Oceanographer

3/31/15 12:59pm

I think the Honor Code office should have only 2 responsibilities:

SoCalCoug

3/31/15 1:27pm

i know a kid the home bishop didn't really like, the kid was literally 6 hours

johnnycarson

3/31/15 10:32am

I agree that changes need to be made

donnerstag

3/31/15 10:44am

The biggest problem with this, I think, is that it dissuades students who may be

Scratch

3/31/15 10:44am

I agree completely

JOPE

3/31/15 10:53am

Having met with Bishops in a BYU Stake...I feel this idea is incorrect

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:07am

But those are BYU Bishops...

coldcoug

3/31/15 11:15am

Even if that's the bishops' perspective,

Scratch

3/31/15 11:15am

Interesting, because my friend's dad who is a bishop at BYU

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:47am

Gotta give a Ute an Amen here. They should be separate processes, and yet they

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:46am

Id be a fan of after accumulating so many credits they let you stay but it have

Flyingdolphin

3/31/15 10:45am

One of my sisters left the church pretty much the day after she graduated from

PharmD

3/31/15 10:48am

your last sentence is telling...

kotacoug

3/31/15 10:51am

Yeah - I don't see her ever coming back, but you never know.

PharmD

3/31/15 10:52am

Who forced her to turn them in? I'm sorry, I don't believe her story. I hear

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:05pm

Her bishop asked to see her according to my sister. Who knows? It's her story,

PharmD

3/31/15 1:11pm

My brother was put on probation when the school found out his

westcoastcoug

3/31/15 4:34pm

Bishops have no more power than the local prosecutors to expel students

byujag

3/31/15 10:57am

I think the issue is that you can't get arrested for saying you don't believe

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:00am

the subject matter is different but the principle is the same

byujag

3/31/15 11:04am

No, you're thinking like a legal prosecutor, not a civil rights advocate. The

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:14am

The principle is not even close to the same

Linescratcher

3/31/15 11:30am

not sure you understood what principle I was talking about

byujag

3/31/15 11:50am

RE: not sure you understood what principle I was talking about

Linescratcher

3/31/15 12:24pm

Two different issues-- the ecclesitaical endorsement is the Bishop directly

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:51am

This is a good point. I never had any bad Bishops and I had one for almost

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 10:58am

This should be an easy decision for BYU. If a student loses their faith and no

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 10:59am

the problem is you then have a possible wolf in among the sheep

byujag

3/31/15 11:07am

If a student body of 30,000 of our best and brightest can't withstand a handful

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:16am

BYU allows students of other faiths to attend - are they wolves in sheep's

couldge

3/31/15 11:27am

not the same thing

byujag

3/31/15 11:32am

I think the negative image the rule creates FAR outweighs any positives.

Byron McNertney

3/31/15 11:45am

Not really. Two points: from a member of the BOT, the reason the church

Monomachos

3/31/15 12:27pm

They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints. Why does a crisis of

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 12:50pm

If "They earned their spot over competing Latter-day Saints" they also

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:27pm

There are a number of nonmember, HC-abiding students at BYU.

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:08pm

True, but as Jenkins pointed out, they are not asked to make the

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:22pm

Other than Church callings, in what other ways are they not as committed?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:28pm

They committed to being active members of the Church. Period.

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:39pm

So, what if they lose their faith, but still attend church?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 1:49pm

Then we are back to square one: it is up to their bishop to determine

Monomachos

3/31/15 1:55pm

I'm fine with that, but how do nonmember students meet that aspect of the HC?

Oceanographer

3/31/15 2:35pm

"Commitment" is a tricky term. What if you came across a person of the Catholic

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 2:29pm

Not the same. The commitment at BYU brings defined responsibilities ang

Monomachos

3/31/15 4:24pm

Or make them get an ecclesiastical endorsement from another church

doubled1981

3/31/15 12:39pm

How did Luke Ashworth remain in school under this approach? IIRC he was not

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:52am

One of the questions of the Honor Code is interesting

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:25am

Why? I don't believe it is sinful to be in a female's apartment at 12:01 but

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:32am

Sin and the Honor Code are two different things

MoveTheChains

3/31/15 11:56am

I know sin and the honor code are two different things. That is exactly why

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 12:08pm

I have no issue with the Honor Code

MoveTheChains

4/1/15 2:09pm

The variation on leaders is a legitimate issue. One of the stake presidents I

Sandstone Cougar

3/31/15 11:37am

Variation is an issue in excommunication too.

PharmD

4/1/15 8:00am

Seems odd that an alumni group wants to pull the university's accreditation.

Real Men Wear Blue

3/31/15 11:44am

Luke Ashworth stayed and graduated. There is a disconnect somewhere.

NewMexiCoug

3/31/15 12:43pm

There's no disconnect. BYU made an exception for Luke. I don't know how often

DapperDan

3/31/15 12:45pm

Thanks. To me, an exception to a hard, fast policy is a disconnect,

NewMexiCoug

3/31/15 2:53pm

A different point of view

davevine

4/1/15 7:53am

Yeah I strongly disagree with that.

kudzucoug

4/1/15 7:55am

Wow, terrible idea

TepperCoug

4/1/15 8:14am

<< Deleted >>

davevine

4/1/15 8:17am

You can make your point without putting words in someone else's mouth.

kudzucoug

4/1/15 8:23am

Agreed

davevine

4/1/15 9:11am

I can see where you are coming from but measuring beliefs is a very difficult

kudzucoug

4/1/15 9:41am

I agree with your point that the couple does have responsibility for

Monomachos

4/1/15 2:36pm

If your concern is people billing the church, just charge more

jkccoug

4/1/15 8:06pm

That article is such crap. Apparently the 1st presidency and quorum...

COACHdrn

4/1/15 9:10am

had a friend whose Bishop wouldn't sign his endorsement

jkccoug

4/1/15 10:45am

I fully support the bishops at BYU. If they feel a student doesn't qualify for

IronPotato

4/1/15 4:54pm

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